What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

[Kieran]

That's your interpretation. I don't buy it in a general sense. Sure, you'll get extremists who meet your criteria but the vast majority of people aren't in that category. Worryingly, far more people seem to be in a category that seem to have complete indifference to a genocide, and then there is an even more extremist group that seem to think it's actually OK.

Do you see weekly protests against China and what it does to Uighur Muslims? Do you see weekly protests against Russia? Did anyone march in solidarity with the Palestinians when they tried to rid themselves of Hamas? How often do you encounter Palestinian flags? Do you see anyone protest against Pakistan illegally deporting Afghan refugees, sending them back to the Taliban?

Of all the protests you see, what percent are protesting against the existence of the Jewish state?

Would it be 100%? I would say so. They’re singled out and lied about and the ire gets turned on Jews everywhere, regardless of their views on Israel, to the extent that we know from reason that the object of hatred isn’t Israel, it’s Jews…

 

[Kieran]

Oh I wholeheartedly agree with all of the above. Except, this again raises my initial question: If Europe failed the Jews, and it most certainly has, and yes, it goes far beyond Hitler (in fact, he's become the de facto scarecrow and an easy distraction for Europe to pin its failures on, as if the whole ideology was not adopted by millions), this begs the question, why were Arabs the ones to pay the price? More importantly, how come white people, and not for the first time, escape the scathing vitriol directed at literally every minority when they do something bad? Immigrants stir trouble and rampant islamophobia ensues. A racist, fascist ideology is adopted by millions, resulting in the biggest tragedy in Europe's modern history and it's "our Judeo-Christian values! Those filthy primitive Arabs!"

Or, at best, we hear something lukewarm like "oh yeah, the West has its failures..." As if 6 million dead jews is merely a "failure," and not an indication of something far more monstrous and sinister.

Truly amazing how white, capitalist hegemony just manages to brainwash.

The Arabs didn’t “pay the price” for anything other than their inability resist wanting to annihilate the minuscule Jewish state. Remember, Zionists had purchased a lot of the land that comprises modern Tel Aviv in the 19th century, with the permission of the colonial power which ruled it. Largely, the Jewish people and their neighbours got on. But once the tiny dot on the map called “Israel” was formed, they were attacked. There’s that famous video of the Hillel Neuer of UN Watch exposing the treatment and lack of safety of Jews elsewhere in the Middle East, which, regardless of whether you like him or not, shows how Jews in the ME are not safe anywhere, except in the Jewish State.



You’ve made a few jibes about “our Judeo-Christian values”, as if you imagine that we think the West is perfect, and Arabs are “filthy”. Both of these summaries are faulty…

 

[britbox]

Do you see weekly protests against China and what it does to Uighur Muslims? Do you see weekly protests against Russia? Did anyone march in solidarity with the Palestinians when they tried to rid themselves of Hamas? How often do you encounter Palestinian flags? Do you see anyone protest against Pakistan illegally deporting Afghan refugees, sending them back to the Taliban?

Of all the protests you see, what percent are protesting against the existence of the Jewish state?

Would it be 100%? I would say so. They’re singled out and lied about and the ire gets turned on Jews everywhere, regardless of their views on Israel, to the extent that we know from reason that the object of hatred isn’t Israel, it’s Jews…

Actually I have seen a few smallish protests about the CCP here in Oz - mainly related to Falun Dafa. No, it's not 100% about Israel - nowhere near. In fact anything related to mass protests against Israel is actually fairly recent in the West. Prior to 2020, do you recall mass anti-Israeli protests? Me neither. However, I do recall mass protests against the Iraq war - so @brokenshoelace should be mindful that most of these "horrible white people" in the West don't actually support their government mandated incursions overseas. Most people actually want to be left the fuck alone.

For the most part, people are told what to protest about. Most of this stuff is orchestrated. You say... governments are sitting on their hands allowing this to happen. Urm... not really - rules are being drafted up to control speech throughout the entire western world in response to these protests - go look at the bills going through parliament pretty much everywhere... Problem, reaction, solution. Just like everything else happening right now.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Actually I have seen a few smallish protests about the CCP here in Oz - mainly related to Falun Dafa. No, it's not 100% about Israel - nowhere near. In fact anything related to mass protests against Israel is actually fairly recent in the West. Prior to 2020, do you recall mass anti-Israeli protests? Me neither. However, I do recall mass protests against the Iraq war - so @brokenshoelace should be mindful that most of these "horrible white people" in the West don't actually support their government mandated incursions overseas. Most people actually want to be left the fuck alone.

Let me rant man...

 

[brokenshoelace]

The Arabs didn’t “pay the price” for anything other than their inability resist wanting to annihilate the minuscule Jewish state. Remember, Zionists had purchased a lot of the land that comprises modern Tel Aviv in the 19th century, with the permission of the colonial power which ruled it. Largely, the Jewish people and their neighbours got on. But once the tiny dot on the map called “Israel” was formed, they were attacked. There’s that famous video of the Hillel Neuer of UN Watch exposing the treatment and lack of safety of Jews elsewhere in the Middle East, which, regardless of whether you like him or not, shows how Jews in the ME are not safe anywhere, except in the Jewish State.



You’ve made a few jibes about “our Judeo-Christian values”, as if you imagine that we think the West is perfect, and Arabs are “filthy”. Both of these summaries are faulty…

Ah, Western history at work.

1) Zero words about Al Nakba. Which is fairly predictable considering it consisted of Zionist atrocities, forced displacement and ethnic cleansing against Arabs.

2) By 1947, Jewish ownership amounted to 7% of Palestine. Hardly "a lot of the land."

3) As always, just a complete lack of mindfulness for settler colonialism and what that actually entails.

4) Jews everywhere are a lot a safer than neighboring Arabs of the Jewish State, as evidenced by Gaza and the West Bank.



But yes, Jewish settlers burning Arab homes, villages and people every day in the West Bank is just a glimpse of the peaceful Zionist neighbors, who of course just want to be left alone.

Israeli settler violence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A whole Wikipedia article on the matter. Remember, this is the West Bank, where Hamas presence does not exist.

 

[Kieran]

No, it's not 100% about Israel - nowhere near. In fact anything related to mass protests against Israel is actually fairly recent in the West. Prior to 2020, do you recall mass anti-Israeli protests? Me neither.

And since 2020 would you say that protests against Israel have been proportionate to their situation, or massively inflated? Since we saw the empty heads racing through the corridors of elite American universities, and the weekly masked events in London, it’s not stopped. They’ve permeated society like head-lice. And to an extent you and I would agree, they don’t represent the majority and they are acting under orders - and they have been fomenting anti-semitism from the top down: the university professors seem as ignorant and twitchy as the dopey students, but since the left rule the main education centres in America, that’s hardly surprising.

But they’re dangerous, and they both encourage and practice violent means. We have these actors In Ireland too, and it’s becoming the conversation to avoid, anything at all related to Jews.

There might be useful (and useless) idiots who joined the pro-Hamas parade, but let’s not kid ourselves as to how hateful of Jews it all is. The day after October 7 we were at a gig where my heart sank to see a Palestinian flag on stage, and myself and the missus were the only audience members to remain seated when invited from the band on stage to stand and cheer the fearless freedom fighters.

The only surprising thing is that the people around us didn’t gang up, but they probably didn’t know how to react, they were so bravely chanting and roaring in favour of Hamas.

Ireland hasn’t shown sense since then…

 

[Kieran]

I must refresh the page on Wikipedia, it’s such an example of knowledge and precision in research.

I’m pulling your leg, brother, but you must realise that for every link you or I post there are links which contradict them. For example, the Nakba has been variously described, once as a day when 4 men attacked a single man and he kicked the fuck out of them and they’ve been celebrating this ever since.

I know that’s offensive to some, but it’s offensive to Israelis that their neighbours hold such violent intent toward them, too. And this much neither of us can deny.

2) By 1947, Jewish ownership amounted to 7% of Palestine. Hardly "a lot of the land."

A lot of what land? Read again, I said that “Zionists had purchased a lot of the land that comprises modern Tel Aviv.” As for the land of Palestine you mentioned, tell me why they were never given their own state when Egypt ruled there? And why does Egypt now have such a big fuck off wall on their border with Palestine?

And why the Palestinians have never accepted a two state solution? Bill Clinton can still be found wandering the lonesome alleys of YouTube lamenting that Arafat rejected a deal that would diminish the size of Israel and would help rebuild Palestine.

With the aid they’ve received since, they seem more keen on building tunnels.

4) Jews everywhere are a lot a safer than neighboring Arabs of the Jewish State, as evidenced by Gaza and the West Bank.

But Arabs in the Jewish state are free to hold jobs, be members of parliament, preside on the Supreme Court, attend Pride marches, be prominent female diplomats, politicians and business women. They’re a lot safer than Arabs outside Israel who might be women or gays - and they’re far safer than Jews would be in their neighbouring countries.

You’ll forgive me if I don’t suffer Abby Martin on the Joe Rogan show. Joe has been inconsistent, to say the least, in who he’s platforming. Abby Martin is a socialist, I know what she thinks, and tend to disagree…

 

[Murat B.]

These clueless reporters...I cannot even call them reporters. Lady, do SOME fucking homework at least !

 

[Federberg]

Many seemingly conflicting things can be true:

Not all Jews are Israeli, not all Jews even support Israel

Israel exists, it is going to continue to exist. It has as much right to exist as any other country.

The Palestinians have the right to run their own country.

Israeli expansionism is real, and it's time for that to be acknowledged and stopped.

Anti-semitism is real, but so is islamophobia. Both are scourges that should not be tolerated.

Not being willing to accept the imposition of Muslim cultural preferences in a European country is NOT islamophobia.

Not enough is done to make known the atrocities perpetrated by the Israeli government and it's settlers

The possibility of peace in the Middle East would be much higher if Iran and it's proxies accepted the reality of Israel's continuing existence

Islamic culture will continue to grow as a problem in Europe until European nations assert their laws that promote a multi-ethnic polity and stop trying to tolerate multiculturalism. There's a difference. If you immigrate to a country you have to explicitly accept the rules and behaviours of that country. It would be absurd for a Western woman to live in Saudi Arabia and believe that she can walk around in a boob tube and mini-skirt. Know where you are, and respect it. If you don't want to comply... leave!

I could go on... the world is a complex place. I honestly believe that most of the problems in European countries arise because progressivism is failing. People immigrate to Western countries because of their freedoms and economic success. It is therefore, even more important to conserve that very cultural and economic success that made these countries a destination of choice. Not to destroy it! It's frankly absurd to cater to the needs of people who have made the decision to join you. No where else in the world would this happen. An immigrant in Malaysia or Argentina would be expected to fit in to the indigenous way of life. It's that simple

 

[britbox]

And since 2020 would you say that protests against Israel have been proportionate to their situation, or massively inflated? Since we saw the empty heads racing through the corridors of elite American universities, and the weekly masked events in London, it’s not stopped. They’ve permeated society like head-lice. And to an extent you and I would agree, they don’t represent the majority and they are acting under orders - and they have been fomenting anti-semitism from the top down: the university professors seem as ignorant and twitchy as the dopey students, but since the left rule the main education centres in America, that’s hardly surprising.

But they’re dangerous, and they both encourage and practice violent means. We have these actors In Ireland too, and it’s becoming the conversation to avoid, anything at all related to Jews.

There might be useful (and useless) idiots who joined the pro-Hamas parade, but let’s not kid ourselves as to how hateful of Jews it all is. The day after October 7 we were at a gig where my heart sank to see a Palestinian flag on stage, and myself and the missus were the only audience members to remain seated when invited from the band on stage to stand and cheer the fearless freedom fighters.

The only surprising thing is that the people around us didn’t gang up, but they probably didn’t know how to react, they were so bravely chanting and roaring in favour of Hamas.

Ireland hasn’t shown sense since then…

The Israel pushback has been targetted. I don't think it's massively inflated. Targetted? Yes. Our views on anti-semitism are unlikely to share any common ground as I would label somebody like @brokenshoelace more of a traditonal semite - certainly one with a better claim than some helicoptered-in Eastern European Khazars.