What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

[Murat B.]

*If you think Gad Saad is full of shit, bring up a point he makes, in context and complete, refute it , let's discuss about it. Calling him a Zionist shill is not an argument...at least not one I can argue about.

*You asked about a hypothetical , if a country attacks Canada, rapes, takes over, etc....The answer is yes, that land would be now conquered by the new country. Canada is a Nato founding member though. It would take a lot to occupy it. But in theory, the answer is yes. It can cease to exist. Almost a thousand sovereign states ENDED in the history of the world due to conquest and colonization and other stuff. And it is not over yet.

*I asked you whom Israel stole their land from? No answer.

*In just the last 20 years, the map of the world changed at least 4-5 times. Do you think the world will look the same in a hundred years? It won't . And some will always complain about stolen land.

*I gave you historical accounts of why some in the Muslim world will always want the "other" to die, dating way back to the creation of the USA to prove that the modern state of Israel or the US is not the reason for the hatred towards them. I did not hear anything to refute that fact.

*Your heartfelt wish of "stop killing people" is something everyone agrees on. But would not that wish be helpful on October 7 , for example? Do you think killing 1200 people, women and children, and abducting another 250 or so, raping them , torturing them and then killing them helped the cause or did it lead to the destruction of Gaza?

*Speaking of the cause, what do you think that is? What is Hamas, Hezbullah , etc trying to achieve in the Middle East ? To me, when you say " From the river to the sea..." it sounds a lot like annihilation of the Jewish state, no ? Because if you go from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean , there is no Israel left. Or am I looking at the map wrong?

*You use the word Zionism as some sort of curse word but just open up the dictionary and you will see that it simply means " Support for the continued existence, security, and development of Israel as a Jewish state."

*Back to the "stop killing people"...Since its creation on 1948, how many times did Israel directly started a war with its neighbors versus how many time others initiated a war against Israel and they retaliated? The answer to that question tells a lot about who wants to kill whom. I will save you the google search, Israel initiated only two wars...1967 six day war, where they felt it was justified because of Egyptian troop mobilization in Sinai ( it is neither here or there) and 1982 Lebanon War where they claimed there were issues at the northern border with PLO fighters. Again, may be true, may be bullshit. But all the other times, Israel was attacked and retaliated. 1948 Arab -Israeli War, 1973 Yum Kippur War, 2006 Lebanon War, 2023 Hamas-Israel War....all initiated by others.
The problem of course is when Israel retaliates, all hell breaks lose...

*Here is the biggest issue. Palestinians, or the people who govern them or speak for them, have never wanted an independent state. How do we know that? Because from the 1937 Peel Commission plan to the 2008 Olmert Plan, they rejected their own sovereign nation 5 or 6 times. They always came up with trivial excuses ( and some legit excuses too, but those could have been worked out if they stayed at the table ) to reject statehood. Why is that?

*Two reasons: Reason one...they just don't want a Jewish state period. They have said as much a million times. Read the Hamas charter, the original one and the pussified 2017 one. So if they accept their own state, terrorist organizations like Hamas cease to exist, they lose their reason to be. That is not acceptable. Victimhood status must be protected at all costs ! Reason number two: If you have your own state, you have to govern like an adult. You have to build things, help your people. Palestinians have NEVER done that in the history of mankind. That is too much work. Easier to get billions in foreign aid, enjoy Qatar's help, let your people suffer.

*20% of Israeli population is Arabs, just about 1.6 million of them are Muslims. . They can vote, run for office, live a normal life. Since 2005, no Jews have been living in Gaza.

Pick any point, tell me why it is wrong. No need for name calling. Debate the issue, or not. I am happy either way. I don't have "tricks" and I am not trying to fool anyone. Those are not arguments.

 

[Kieran]

I was on a wee break and the most telling event for me wasn’t Sasha finally crossing the line at a slam, deservedly so, though it was difficult for him, or the dull beginning of a bloated World Cup, most of which I've been fortunate enough to avoid, but the horrible attack on the NYC subway by an ignorant woman who assaulted a female Jew both physically and verbally, by ripping hair from her head and persistently telling the distressed woman, “you eat babies.”

This was both ugly and painfully predictable, and I see it as both a result and central aim of the perma-protests almost everywhere in the west, masked and threatening to Jews – and which aren’t “protests” at all. The protests were never protests because they demanded without question the destruction of the Jewish State, and because the conflict in Palestine was never the worst thing happening in the world at that time, but was and continually still is singled out, for an all-too obvious reason.

The constant demonising of the Jewish state while ignoring the reality of hamas and other neighbours of Israel, has led to Jews everywhere feeling there are dangerous eyes on them. That’s not only a fact but it’s also very noticeable that no longer do people who hate Jews preface their bigotry with some facile diversion, like, “I don’t hate Jews but I’m critical of Israel…or mossad…or evil Jewish banks …or Rothschild…or Zionism,or etc.” They’re critical of all these at the expense of being critical of anything else that doesn’t involve Jews, even tangentially.

No-Jews-No-News isn’t only a neat rhyme. It’s a summary of the truth. And this has exploded into the open since October 7th, with no attempt to disguise the explicit hatred of Jews at its core. Look at the comments section sometime and you won't be surprised to see things such as, "the Austrian painter wasn't wrong." Far Right and Far left simpletons have loudly found common cause.

There are less than 16 million Jews on earth, and about 6 million of them live on a tiny sliver of land in their ancestral homeland, and yet as long as they’re not accepted by their neighbours, we will see trouble. But the increased harassment and killing of Jews in the west is the rotten fruit of our lowbrow “activists who aren’t”, and the likes of Claudine Gay, Zac Polanski, Mamdani and his gruesome missus, and many other high profile Jew-haters.

So few Jews in the world and yet with their contributions to the arts, culture, science, medicine, technology of all types, they punch so far above their weight in all these things - and so far above their neighbours - that their reward is the usual: suspicion, lies, conspiracy theories, violence. As Thomas Sowell once put it, they’d be liked more if they failed more.

By the way, western resistance to mass immigration into Europe and North America is sensible, practical and based on sound principles of justice. On my own glorious island we recently witnessed an attempt to behead a man on the street, and I didn’t even have to read the news to know that the man who attempted this was an immigrant Muslim. Initial media reports tried to distract from this by saying the suspect has “mental issues.” Well, gee whizz, we knew that! Mental issues? Trying to hack a man’s head off in a public street, in broad daylight, was hardly recognised as evidence that he was witty, gentle and sane.

Now, full disclosure, Ireland had its own problems with terrorists who had their own apologists who dubbed them “freedom fighters”, and “the resistance”, but the IRA were terrorists who carried out atrocities both here and in Britain, not in the cause of bettering my country, but for sake of their own desire for wealth and control. Now we see this act of attempted butchery in the north.

To control immigration from countries which have not and legally enshrined protection and freedom for women, gays, minorities, as a way of life, is both sensible and necessary.

Many men from these countries who have entered the West in the last twenty years have trouble assimilating. This isn’t made easier for them by soft-belly “liberal” thinking which dictates that any criticism of their culture, such as it is, is racist. Sharia law courts are being used in the UK - over sixty of them now - to further ghettoise Muslim women from getting real justice in their martial issues. Child abuse and grooming scandals brushed under the carpet because the accused were “Asian” - a strange euphemism for Pakistani - and the outcry about these abuses were monotonously labelled “racist”.

Secularism in the west is not perfect and it leads to its own problems, but it is a strange floating idea that keeps us buoyant . Commonly in the west, as a fruit of our heritage, we have the public square. You find Jews, gays, believers and non-believers, all welcome to criticise and argue their faith. And against faith. Women wearing skimpy Lycra to a yoga class in a hall provided by the Church. Catholic priests walking by the synagogue and cheerfully waving to the rabbi, both maybe looking forward to watching the start of the World Cup in a pub on the corner. There might be some drunks on the floor, outside an Oirish pub.

You find Mosques in the public square, too. And a nightclub. We want to preserve our freedoms, we don't welcome people who go on psycho-sprees over something they saw in the funny pages. We don't want people who think taking a child bride is a good thing, or that women are constantly to be controlled by reason of blaming them for Muslim men's lack of self-control. We've kind of surrendered to extreme Islamists on the issue of freedom of speech, and I don't know how we can retrieve it other than by being more free with our speech.

And of course, mass deportations of anyone who believes otherwise...

 

[Kieran]

*If you think Gad Saad is full of shit, bring up a point he makes, in context and complete, refute it , let's discuss about it. Calling him a Zionist shill is not an argument...at least not one I can argue about.

*You asked about a hypothetical , if a country attacks Canada, rapes, takes over, etc....The answer is yes, that land would be now conquered by the new country. Canada is a Nato founding member though. It would take a lot to occupy it. But in theory, the answer is yes. It can seize to exist. Almost a thousand sovereign states ENDED in the history of the world due to conquest and colonization and other stuff. And it is not over yet.

*I asked you whom Israel stole their land from? No answer.

*In just the last 20 years, the map of the world changed at least 4-5 times. Do you think the world will look the same in a hundred years? It won't . And some will always complain about stolen land.

*I gave you historical accounts of why some in the Muslim world will always want the "other" to die, dating way back to the creation of the USA to prove that the modern state of Israel or the US is not the reason for the hatred towards them. I did not hear anything to refute that fact.

*Your heartfelt wish of "stop killing people" is something everyone agrees on. But would not that wish be helpful on October 7 , for example? Do you think killing 1200 people, women and children, and abducting another 250 or so, raping them , torturing them and then killing them helped the cause or did it lead to the destruction of Gaza?

*Speaking of the cause, what do you think that is? What is Hamas, Hezbullah , etc trying to achieve in the Middle East ? To me, when you say " From the river to the sea..." it sounds a lot like annihilation of the Jewish state, no ? Because if you go from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean , there is no Israel left. Or am I looking at the map wrong?

*You use the word Zionism as some sort of curse word but just open up the dictionary and you will see that it simply means " Support for the continued existence, security, and development of Israel as a Jewish state."

*Back to the "stop killing people"...Since its creation on 1948, how many times did Israel directly started a war with its neighbors versus how many time others initiated a war against Israel and they retaliated? The answer to that question tells a lot about who wants to kill whom. I will save you the google search, Israel initiated only two wars...1967 six day war, where they felt it was justified because of Egyptian troop mobilization in Sinai ( it is neither here or there) and 1982 Lebanon War where they claimed there were issues at the northern border with PLO fighters. Again, may be true, may be bullshit. But all the other times, Israel was attacked and retaliated. 1948 Arab -Israeli War, 1973 Yum Kippur War, 2006 Lebanon War, 2023 Hamas-Israel War....all initiated by others.
The problem of course is when Israel retaliates, all hell breaks lose...

*Here is the biggest issue. Palestinians, or the people who govern them or speak for them, have never wanted an independent state. How do we know that? Because from the 1937 Peel Commission plan to the 2008 Olmert Plan, they rejected their own sovereign nation 5 or 6 times. They always came up with trivial excuses ( and some legit excuses too, but those could have been worked out if they stayed at the table ) to reject statehood. Why is that?

*Two reasons: Reason one...they just don't want a Jewish state period. They have said as much a million times. Read the Hamas charter, the original one and the pussified 2017 one. So if they accept their own state, terrorist organizations like Hamas seize to exist, they lose their reason to be. That is not acceptable. Victimhood status must be protected at all costs ! Reason number two: If you have your own state, you have to govern like an adult. You have to build things, help your people. Palestinians have NEVER done that in the history of mankind. That is too much work. Easier to get billions in foreign aid, enjoy Qatar's help, let your people suffer.

*20% of Israeli population is Arabs, just about 1.6 million of them are Muslims. . They can vote, run for office, live a normal life. Since 2005, no Jews have been living in Gaza.

Pick any point, tell me why it is wrong. No need for name calling. Debate the issue, or not. I am happy either way. I don't have "tricks" and I am not trying to fool anyone. Those are not arguments.

Too much here to agree with. By the way, we see how the word "Zionist" has been twisted and corrupted into something evil, to be treated with suspicious.

I only had time to skim a few posts here and I was glad to see the question of Israel's right to exist being brought up, to which the reply was something like, "what about Israel's right to exist? It already exists!" Which, thankfully, is true, and we should never forget the reasons why it's existence became necessary. But it was a good question, and a very pertinent one at this stage, because we never see anyone question the existence of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, and I'm sure there are many others. And of course, you're right: many times Palestine has been offered a state, which they've refused, for obvious reasons...

 

[Murat B.]

UK gang rape inquiry is out.
In the name of political correctness, diversity and inclusion, over 250.000 girls were sacrificed to the Pakistani rape gangs. These altruistic sperm donors from the religion of peace groomed, tortured and raped and the people in charge did nothing, even hid the crimes whenever they could because you know, diversity....
Here is the link to the report:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/6810978a41bbc42489eafa81/t/6a314bb1151e511944bd4421/1781615537601/The+Rape+Gang+Inquiry+Report.pdf

 

[brokenshoelace]

*If you think Gad Saad is full of shit, bring up a point he makes, in context and complete, refute it , let's discuss about it. Calling him a Zionist shill is not an argument...at least not one I can argue about.

It's funny how the Western mind's inability to empathize with third world countries makes them miss super basic points. Currently, Israel is absolutely decimating Lebanon, once again. As it did in 1979, 1982 (which was followed by 18 years of occupation, rape, torture, etc... You might want to read about Israeli prisons in Lebanon during that time, such as Khiyam). So the very basic response to your dumb "why isn't Gad Saad a national treasure in Lebanon?" is simple: He's pro-Israel. Lebanese people, for the most part, are obviously not going to be big fans of the guy who can't stop praising the very country that's killing them. Whether you agree with his politics or not, it's irrelevant. You can't ask over one million displaced people and thousands grieving families why they don't like the guy who cheerleads their killers. You can condescend as much as you like, but yeah, the question is idiotic, and shows how little value you have for the lives of those suffering.

*You asked about a hypothetical , if a country attacks Canada, rapes, takes over, etc....The answer is yes, that land would be now conquered by the new country. Canada is a Nato founding member though. It would take a lot to occupy it. But in theory, the answer is yes. It can cease to exist. Almost a thousand sovereign states ENDED in the history of the world due to conquest and colonization and other stuff. And it is not over yet.

This is the strawman that I just love. Again, you are so unbelievably unempathetic to brown people dying that you're focusing on the logistics of it all...My question in this hypothetical isn't whether the country would cease to exist or not, my question is, should we all just be OK with that? Just because it's happened before? Because this is what happens any time a Western shill is cornered about the committed atrocities. "Oh well, we're not the only ones doing it. It's happened before. Countries have been conquered before." Well yeah, no shit. Should we not condemn the people doing the killing? The genocidal entity that's causing the massacres? No? I'm sure you'll give me some overly pragmatic centrist bullshit about how Hitler is not some uniquely evil man, but that doesn't change the fact that the West has spent a century telling us he's the boogeyman. We never stopped hearing about the Holocaust and all the guilt that came with it... But curiously nothing about Germany's genocide of Herero and Nama in Namibia. Hmmm... I wonder why. But when it comes to Arabs dying, they should just shut the fuck up, sit back, and take it.

*I asked you whom Israel stole their land from? No answer.

Uhh....the people living there? Again, a Westerner more concerned by whether Palestine was an official state recognized by international law (sorry couldn't type those last two words without laughing) than the people who were killed, raped, and stripped of their homes...And by the way, this isn't ancient history, it is happening to this very day. I have repeatedly linked articles and videos about that in this thread, to crickets from your end. So just because it's happened before, or that Palestine was not officially a state (whatever the fuck weight this should carry in this conversation), I guess it's OK to just burst in and kill all the Arabs you can find. It's OK for some loser old couple from Brooklyn to fly halfway across the world and literally throw Palestinian farmers and take their home. You're aware this is by no means a caricatural representation and is quite literally, exactly what happens, right? It's extremely commonplace.

But yeah, if a country was not officially recognized, it's OK to barge in, kill its residents, and take it for yourself. That deserves no condemnation whatsoever. It's just how things work. Western values everyone!

You see, international law means something when discussing whether Palestinian was ever a state. Not when the sitting Israeli Prime Minister is literally convicted of war crimes by the ICJ. Because in the case of the latter, we get the typical crickets.

*In just the last 20 years, the map of the world changed at least 4-5 times. Do you think the world will look the same in a hundred years? It won't . And some will always complain about stolen land.

This is the mind of the civilized West. "The world is always changing. So shut the fuck up, while we rape you, kill you, and take your homes, because that's what's always happened." It's truly amazing.

OK let's apply the same dumb logic. People have always raped, stolen, and immigrated to other countries. So shut the fuck up about immigrants and crime? No? I didn't think so, either.

No, when it comes to imperial powers killing hundreds of thousands every year, we should just accept that. Can't even complain about it on a stupid tennis message board without a fuckhead living in the safety of a house in Canada who can't go a day without worrying about how immigrants are supposedly taking his country telling me that I should have a more nuanced outlook about the trillions of dollars worth of missiles dropping on our homes.

Alright, can we apply the same logic to Hezbollah and Hamas then? If the world always changes, and land is always ceased, and war is always inevitable, then I could also claim that armed resistance/terrorism/whatever the fuck you want to call it has always been created as a reaction. But no, now the logic can't apply, and we need to be asked if we condemn Hamas 210912190590312 times before pointing out that Israel had killed over 200 Palestinians in Gaza in 2023 BEFORE October 7. This is in supposed times of peace. Of course, no international outrage, no questions about condemning Israel, and most Westerners like yourself weren't even aware or simply don't care. For reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict_in_2023

This isn't even touching on the conditions in Gaza enforced by Israel even before October 7:

Gaza: The world’s largest open-air prison

More than 50 years of occupation and 10 years of blockade have made the lives of 1.9 million Palestinians living inside the Gaza Strip unbearable. That ...

www.nrc.no

Yeah, just completely normal. I wonder why those filthy Arabs have it in for their peaceful loving Zionist occupiers.

*I gave you historical accounts of why some in the Muslim world will always want the "other" to die, dating way back to the creation of the USA to prove that the modern state of Israel or the US is not the reason for the hatred towards them. I did not hear anything to refute that fact.

Because this is a typical Western trap. You so desperately want to portray Arabs a certain way that we should just ignore the West's historical bloodlust, expansionism and warmongering. But suddenly, when it comes to that, we're supposed to accept that it's just the way things are. George W. Bush makes up bullshit about Weapons of Mass Destruction, invades Iraq, a million people die, and there is zero accountability despite confirmation the US Government lied about WMDs. Nope. Peaceful Judeo-Christian values at work. How many massacres has the West committed in Africa? But if we dare talk about colonialism, we are met with collective eye rolls, because again, you guys want to portray colonialism as something not unique (which it isn't, I know), rather than focus about what it actually entails. And even when we do talk about the death toll and atrocities, a shoulder shrug is the most humanity we're met with. And before the inevitable strawman of "well, what do you want us to do?" how about shutting the fuck up when it's brought up at least? No? Not even that? Ok then. Can we draw conclusions that the West has always wanted the third world to "die" one way or another? Be it by war, harsh economic measures, etc...? No?

And here comes the strawman of "accountability." I am NOT saying everything wrong with third world countries is due to the West. I'm saying Westerners like yourself need to get off their high horse and at least shut the fuck up, given everything your countries have done to the global south. Can we at least get that? No, of course not. We're lectured about how we should feel towards the West. How Islam is evil and violent (which I don't even fully disagree with), as opposed to the peaceful Christian and Jewish religions (which requires some insane mental gymnastics to believe, given both religion's very violent histories).

*Your heartfelt wish of "stop killing people" is something everyone agrees on. But would not that wish be helpful on October 7 , for example? Do you think killing 1200 people, women and children, and abducting another 250 or so, raping them , torturing them and then killing them helped the cause or did it lead to the destruction of Gaza?

Ah my favorite Western trick. October 7. What about October 7? Our lives mean so little to you that you can't even condemn the parties causing our deaths without asking "BUT WHAT ABOUT?". And you dare talk about whataboutism. Let's play that game:

Of course I can list obvious things like Al Nakba, Sabra and Chatila, Qana, etc... but let's keep it even more topical and relevant. Let's limit this to 2023, pre October 7.

February 2023 Nablus incursion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

June 2023 Jenin incursion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

These are just off the top of my head. If you wish, we can go further down in history and document Israeli atrocities.

So no, when you label something as "whataboutism" it's a cheap word to hide behind the fact that I am not asking you "WHAT ABOUT X?" (that's actually what Zionists do by bringing up October 7 in response to everything Israel has done since). I'm saying YOU GUYS ARE FUCKING HYPOCRITES, because the countless massacres and murders of Arabs are met with indifference at best, yet October 7 is a green light to literally destroy every single building in Gaza. If someone corrupt talks about others' corruption, people are going to call them out on their hypocrisy. It's not whataboutism, it's saying "you of all people don't get to weaponize this."

Can we talk about the Hannibal Directive? Assuming you even know what that is.

IDF ordered Hannibal directive on October 7 to prevent Hamas taking soldiers captive

'There Was Crazy Hysteria, and Decisions Started Being Made Without Verified Information': Documents and Testimonies Obtained by Haaretz Reveal the Hannibal Operational Order, Which Directs the Use of Force to Prevent Soldiers Being Taken Into Captivity, Was Employed at Three Army Facilities...

www.haaretz.com

IDF carried out Hannibal Directive, new 'Sword of Damocles' on October 7 | The Jerusalem Post

The Israeli Air Force was carrying out a new 'Sword of Damocles' operation as it was carrying out the 'Hannibal directive,' the IDF's probes found.

www.jpost.com

These are is posted by Israeli newspapers, and admitted to by convicted war criminal and then Israel defense minister Yoav Galant.

Hannibal Directive - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You can read up more below:

Testimonies from Israeli soldiers and official inquiries indicate that military personnel along the Gaza border were given orders to cancel patrols, were instructed to abandon forward positions for safer areas, and received radio directives prioritizing the prevention of kidnappings over saving civilians. The Israeli military has acknowledged systemic failures in intelligence and in protecting civilians during the October 7, 2023 attacks. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Cancelled Patrols
Testimonies surfaced in a Knesset hearing where some Israeli soldiers reported receiving unusual orders on the morning of October 7 to cancel all routine patrols along the Gaza border. According to this testimony, soldiers in the Golani Brigade were ordered to stand down and cancel patrols between 5:20 AM and 9:00 AM, a directive that military personnel reportedly found highly irregular. Some analysts and reports suggest that prior to the attack, the IDF shifted its policy to keep troops away from the immediate fence barrier to prevent sniper attacks or kidnappings, relying instead on automated technology. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Orders to Abandon Positions
Surveillance soldiers, known in Hebrew as tatzpitaniyot, testified that their warnings of suspicious border activity in the days leading up to the attack were repeatedly ignored. During the early hours of the assault, female observation soldiers at bases like Nahal Oz reported that they were ordered by commanders to abandon their forward monitoring positions and retreat into interior war rooms. Many of these soldiers were subsequently killed or taken hostage when the base was overrun. [1, 2, 3, 4]

The Hannibal Directive
During the active invasion, journalists reported on operational directives issued by the IDF to prevent Hamas militants from crossing back into Gaza with Israeli hostages "at all costs". Investigations by outlets like Haaretz revealed that the controversial Hannibal Directive was employed at several infiltrated army facilities. This military protocol allows the use of maximum force, including firing on combatants and the captives they are holding, to prevent abductions. [1, 2, 3]

Internal Investigations
In its internal investigation summary, the IDF acknowledged a "complete failure" in its mission to protect civilians. The military postmortem highlighted deep intelligence failures, underestimation of Hamas capabilities, and poor coordination. Some soldiers who arrived at the scenes of ongoing attacks have expressed frustration and confusion regarding delayed response times and orders they received

All a big coincidence I'm sure.

*Speaking of the cause, what do you think that is? What is Hamas, Hezbullah , etc trying to achieve in the Middle East ? To me, when you say " From the river to the sea..." it sounds a lot like annihilation of the Jewish state, no ? Because if you go from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean , there is no Israel left. Or am I looking at the map wrong?

Ah yes, a Western more offended by a slogan "from the river to the sea" which would mean the erasure of the state of Israel, but not Israel refusing to recognize the Palestinian state, constant expansionism, illegal settlements, cries for literal ethnic cleansing by wanting to displace every civilian in Gaza, etc... You see, that's OK, as long as no one's feelings are hurt by a slogan.

Meanwhile, not a peep about "Greater Israel" which is a concept revered by sitting politicians including the current Israel Prime Minister. Nope. Not one.

*You use the word Zionism as some sort of curse word but just open up the dictionary and you will see that it simply means " Support for the continued existence, security, and development of Israel as a Jewish state."

Wow. OK, this one takes the cake. First of all, there is some serious cognitive dissonance here. You want me to open the dictionary and read what Zionism means, as if this is more telling than the practices and statements of Zionists. It's truly incredible.

Is the dictionary supposed to contain caveats that the establishment of said Jewish state will come at the expense of Arabs and the land they're living on? Is it supposed to contain political commentary on the link between Zionism and settler/colonialism?

This really is an amazing argument because it's essentially saying: Why use Zionism as a curse words? Look at what the dictionary says...but ignore the ramifications of this ideology, the treatment of Ethiopian Jews, Christians, Palestinians, etc... Nope nothing in common with fascism, nothing at all.

Violence against Christians in Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A whole Wikipedia article about how Christians are treated in Israel.

An article dating back to 2004 on the treatment of Christians in Israel:

Ultra-orthodox Jews 'must stop religious abuse'

Conal Urquhart: Jerusalem's Christian community has demanded that Jewish leaders and the Israeli government take action against what they claim is growing harassment of their clergy by religious Jews.

www.theguardian.com

An article pre October 7 in 2023 where Christians are begging Israelis not to spit on them anymore:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-attacks-continue-some-religious-jerusalemites-embrace-christian-marchers/

Here's an article on how allegations that contraceptive injections were widespread against Ethiopian-Israeli women. I'm sure the color of their skin is a coincidence. Yeah, nothing in common with Nazis there.

Sexual and gender-based violence against Palestinians during the Gaza war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A whole Wikipedia article on sexual violence against Palestinians.

Shackled, bleeding, raped: Palestinians describe abuse in Israel’s prisons

Former detainees tell Al Jazeera they were routinely sexually abused, starved and attacked by dogs.

www.aljazeera.com

More.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/11/opinion/israel-palestinians-sexual-violence.html

This is a New Yor Times article. When the fucking New York Times reports on this, you know it's bad.

But you see, who cares about the above, because it's not mentioned in the dictionary. I'm sure none of this has anything to do with Zionism...except the part where it's committed by Zionists, sanctioned by Zionists, and in the case of the below, protected by the Zionist mob.

Here are Israeli LAWMAKERS defending the right to rape Palestinian prisoners. I'll look up whether the dictionary mentions anything about that next to Zionism. If not, I guess Zionism is cleared of all charges.

Israeli lawmaker defends alleged rape of Hamas prisoner as far-right protesters rage over IDF troops' detention

Far-right Israelis try to storm military base and lawmaker defends rape of Hamas suspects as 9 IDF reservists face questioning over alleged prisoner abuse.

www.cbsnews.com

Israeli protesters rally for ‘the right to rape’ prisoners

Protesters, politicians and TV commentators in Israel are defending the right of soldiers to mistreat prisoners.

www.aljazeera.com

• Yoav Gallant, Defense Minister: “No electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything is closed. We are fighting human animals…”
• Isaac Herzog, President: “It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible… It’s absolutely not true” that civilians are not involved.
• Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister: invoked Amalek before the Gaza ground invasion: “You must remember what Amalek has done to you,” a biblical reference South Africa framed as genocidal because the cited passage concerns total destruction.
• Israel Katz, then Energy Minister: “All the civilian population in Gaza is ordered to leave immediately… They will not receive a drop of water or a single battery until they leave the world.”
• Itamar Ben-Gvir, National Security Minister: “Those who celebrate, those who support, and those who hand out candy — they’re all terrorists, and they should also be destroyed.”
• Bezalel Smotrich, Finance Minister: “We need to deal a blow that hasn’t been seen in 50 years and take down Gaza.”
• Amichai Eliyahu, Heritage Minister: “The north of the Gaza Strip, more beautiful than ever. Everything is blown up and flattened…” He also argued there were no uninvolved civilians and floated a nuclear strike as “one of the possibilities.”
• Avi Dichter, Agriculture Minister: “We are now actually rolling out the Gaza Nakba.”
• Nissim Vaturi, Deputy Speaker of the Knesset: “Now we all have one common goal — erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the earth.”
• Ghassan Alian, COGAT / Israeli army official: “Human animals are dealt with accordingly… no electricity, no water, just damage. You wanted hell, you will get hell.

Very normal peaceful statements by a very normal politicians belonging to a very normal ideology.

*Back to the "stop killing people"...Since its creation on 1948, how many times did Israel directly started a war with its neighbors versus how many time others initiated a war against Israel and they retaliated? The answer to that question tells a lot about who wants to kill whom. I will save you the google search, Israel initiated only two wars...1967 six day war, where they felt it was justified because of Egyptian troop mobilization in Sinai ( it is neither here or there) and 1982 Lebanon War where they claimed there were issues at the northern border with PLO fighters. Again, may be true, may be bullshit. But all the other times, Israel was attacked and retaliated. 1948 Arab -Israeli War, 1973 Yum Kippur War, 2006 Lebanon War, 2023 Hamas-Israel War....all initiated by others.
The problem of course is when Israel retaliates, all hell breaks lose...

The condescension is out of control. Yeah man, I totally need to Google Israel's wars with my country. Thanks Mr. Maple Leaf. Without you, my limited Arab brain would have never been enlightened to my region's history with the country currently bombing it.

I love how you mention the 1982 invasion of Lebanon as a passing statement. Like oh yeah, there was that time. You know, that time Israel invaded Lebanon based on a bullshit premise and a false flag in Iraq (trademark move), committed so many atrocities against civilians that RONALD FUCKING REAGAN was like "uh guys, this is too much," orchestrated the Sabra and Chatila massacre after the Palestinians had laid down their arms, and...proceeded to occupy Lebanon for 18 years. That's all. So yeah, if you ignore that one time, Israel only retaliates. Do you hear yourself? Eighteen years of occupation, the Khiam detention center in which prisoners were detained without due process and kept their until the liberation of the south, to some unspeakable horrors, torture, sexual violence, etc...

Yeah so you're right just that one time....which also happens to be the reason Hezbollah was created. As you surely know, Hezbollah was formed as a response to the Israeli invasion of 1982, and they played an important role in liberating the south in 2000 after said 18 years. But no, for you, it's "when Israel retaliates, all hell breaks loose" (as if what happened in Gaza and continues to happen could still be labelled as retaliation. Please don't be ridiculous. It's been 3 years), but when Hezbollah is formed because another country invaded their country, it's "those filthy terrorists."

Also it's truly incredible what mind tricks your bias is allowing you to play. Israel doesn't initiate...except those millions of times it's broken the ceasefire, be it in Gaza or in Lebanon. Following the ceasefire of November 2024 with Lebanon, Israel bombed the country for 13 straight months without so much as a bullet fired in retaliation from Hezbollah. You see, that doesn't count as aggression. Because if Israel is attacked it has a lifetime pass to do as it pleases, but Israel invading Lebanon unprovoked and occupying the country for 18 years doesn't give Hezbollah the right to retain its weapons. Just world class analysis there.

 

[Murat B.]

It's funny how the Western mind's inability to empathize with third world countries makes them miss super basic points. Currently, Israel is absolutely decimating Lebanon, once again. As it did in 1979, 1982 (which was followed by 18 years of occupation, rape, torture, etc... You might want to read about Israeli prisons in Lebanon during that time, such as Khiyam). So the very basic response to your dumb "why isn't Gad Saad a national treasure in Lebanon?" is simple: He's pro-Israel. Lebanese people, for the most part, are obviously not going to be big fans of the guy who can't stop praising the very country that's killing them. Whether you agree with his politics or not, it's irrelevant. You can't ask over one million displaced people and thousands grieving families why they don't like the guy who cheerleads their killers. You can condescend as much as you like, but yeah, the question is idiotic, and shows how little value you have for the lives of those suffering.



This is the strawman that I just love. Again, you are so unbelievably unempathetic to brown people dying that you're focusing on the logistics of it all...My question in this hypothetical isn't whether the country would cease to exist or not, my question is, should we all just be OK with that? Just because it's happened before? Because this is what happens any time a Western shill is cornered about the committed atrocities. "Oh well, we're not the only ones doing it. It's happened before. Countries have been conquered before." Well yeah, no shit. Should we not condemn the people doing the killing? The genocidal entity that's causing the massacres? No? I'm sure you'll give me some overly pragmatic centrist bullshit about how Hitler is not some uniquely evil man, but that doesn't change the fact that the West has spent a century telling us he's the boogeyman. We never stopped hearing about the Holocaust and all the guilt that came with it... But curiously nothing about Germany's genocide of Herero and Nama in Namibia. Hmmm... I wonder why. But when it comes to Arabs dying, they should just shut the fuck up, sit back, and take it.





Uhh....the people living there? Again, a Westerner more concerned by whether Palestine was an official state recognized by international law (sorry couldn't type those last two words without laughing) than the people who were killed, raped, and stripped of their homes...And by the way, this isn't ancient history, it is happening to this very day. I have repeatedly linked articles and videos about that in this thread, to crickets from your end. So just because it's happened before, or that Palestine was not officially a state (whatever the fuck weight this should carry in this conversation), I guess it's OK to just burst in and kill all the Arabs you can find. It's OK for some loser old couple from Brooklyn to fly halfway across the world and literally throw Palestinian farmers and take their home. You're aware this is by no means a caricatural representation and is quite literally, exactly what happens, right? It's extremely commonplace.

But yeah, if a country was not officially recognized, it's OK to barge in, kill its residents, and take it for yourself. That deserves no condemnation whatsoever. It's just how things work. Western values everyone!

You see, international law means something when discussing whether Palestinian was ever a state. Not when the sitting Israeli Prime Minister is literally convicted of war crimes by the ICJ. Because in the case of the latter, we get the typical crickets.



This is the mind of the civilized West. "The world is always changing. So shut the fuck up, while we rape you, kill you, and take your homes, because that's what's always happened." It's truly amazing.

OK let's apply the same dumb logic. People have always raped, stolen, and immigrated to other countries. So shut the fuck up about immigrants and crime? No? I didn't think so, either.

No, when it comes to imperial powers killing hundreds of thousands every year, we should just accept that. Can't even complain about it on a stupid tennis message board without a fuckhead living in the safety of a house in Canada who can't go a day without worrying about how immigrants are supposedly taking his country telling me that I should have a more nuanced outlook about the trillions of dollars worth of missiles dropping on our homes.

Alright, can we apply the same logic to Hezbollah and Hamas then? If the world always changes, and land is always ceased, and war is always inevitable, then I could also claim that armed resistance/terrorism/whatever the fuck you want to call it has always been created as a reaction. But no, now the logic can't apply, and we need to be asked if we condemn Hamas 210912190590312 times before pointing out that Israel had killed over 200 Palestinians in Gaza in 2023 BEFORE October 7. This is in supposed times of peace. Of course, no international outrage, no questions about condemning Israel, and most Westerners like yourself weren't even aware or simply don't care. For reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict_in_2023

This isn't even touching on the conditions in Gaza enforced by Israel even before October 7:

Gaza: The world’s largest open-air prison

More than 50 years of occupation and 10 years of blockade have made the lives of 1.9 million Palestinians living inside the Gaza Strip unbearable. That ...

www.nrc.no

Yeah, just completely normal. I wonder why those filthy Arabs have it in for their peaceful loving Zionist occupiers.




Because this is a typical Western trap. You so desperately want to portray Arabs a certain way that we should just ignore the West's historical bloodlust, expansionism and warmongering. But suddenly, when it comes to that, we're supposed to accept that it's just the way things are. George W. Bush makes up bullshit about Weapons of Mass Destruction, invades Iraq, a million people die, and there is zero accountability despite confirmation the US Government lied about WMDs. Nope. Peaceful Judeo-Christian values at work. How many massacres has the West committed in Africa? But if we dare talk about colonialism, we are met with collective eye rolls, because again, you guys want to portray colonialism as something not unique (which it isn't, I know), rather than focus about what it actually entails. And even when we do talk about the death toll and atrocities, a shoulder shrug is the most humanity we're met with. And before the inevitable strawman of "well, what do you want us to do?" how about shutting the fuck up when it's brought up at least? No? Not even that? Ok then. Can we draw conclusions that the West has always wanted the third world to "die" one way or another? Be it by war, harsh economic measures, etc...? No?

And here comes the strawman of "accountability." I am NOT saying everything wrong with third world countries is due to the West. I'm saying Westerners like yourself need to get off their high horse and at least shut the fuck up, given everything your countries have done to the global south. Can we at least get that? No, of course not. We're lectured about how we should feel towards the West. How Islam is evil and violent (which I don't even fully disagree with), as opposed to the peaceful Christian and Jewish religions (which requires some insane mental gymnastics to believe, given both religion's very violent histories).




Ah my favorite Western trick. October 7. What about October 7? Our lives mean so little to you that you can't even condemn the parties causing our deaths without asking "BUT WHAT ABOUT?". And you dare talk about whataboutism. Let's play that game:

Of course I can list obvious things like Al Nakba, Sabra and Chatila, Qana, etc... but let's keep it even more topical and relevant. Let's limit this to 2023, pre October 7.

February 2023 Nablus incursion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

June 2023 Jenin incursion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

These are just off the top of my head. If you wish, we can go further down in history and document Israeli atrocities.

So no, when you label something as "whataboutism" it's a cheap word to hide behind the fact that I am not asking you "WHAT ABOUT X?" (that's actually what Zionists do by bringing up October 7 in response to everything Israel has done since). I'm saying YOU GUYS ARE FUCKING HYPOCRITES, because the countless massacres and murders of Arabs are met with indifference at best, yet October 7 is a green light to literally destroy every single building in Gaza. If someone corrupt talks about others' corruption, people are going to call them out on their hypocrisy. It's not whataboutism, it's saying "you of all people don't get to weaponize this."

Can we talk about the Hannibal Directive? Assuming you even know what that is.

IDF ordered Hannibal directive on October 7 to prevent Hamas taking soldiers captive

'There Was Crazy Hysteria, and Decisions Started Being Made Without Verified Information': Documents and Testimonies Obtained by Haaretz Reveal the Hannibal Operational Order, Which Directs the Use of Force to Prevent Soldiers Being Taken Into Captivity, Was Employed at Three Army Facilities...

www.haaretz.com

IDF carried out Hannibal Directive, new 'Sword of Damocles' on October 7 | The Jerusalem Post

The Israeli Air Force was carrying out a new 'Sword of Damocles' operation as it was carrying out the 'Hannibal directive,' the IDF's probes found.

www.jpost.com

These are is posted by Israeli newspapers, and admitted to by convicted war criminal and then Israel defense minister Yoav Galant.

Hannibal Directive - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You can read up more below:

Testimonies from Israeli soldiers and official inquiries indicate that military personnel along the Gaza border were given orders to cancel patrols, were instructed to abandon forward positions for safer areas, and received radio directives prioritizing the prevention of kidnappings over saving civilians. The Israeli military has acknowledged systemic failures in intelligence and in protecting civilians during the October 7, 2023 attacks. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Cancelled Patrols
Testimonies surfaced in a Knesset hearing where some Israeli soldiers reported receiving unusual orders on the morning of October 7 to cancel all routine patrols along the Gaza border. According to this testimony, soldiers in the Golani Brigade were ordered to stand down and cancel patrols between 5:20 AM and 9:00 AM, a directive that military personnel reportedly found highly irregular. Some analysts and reports suggest that prior to the attack, the IDF shifted its policy to keep troops away from the immediate fence barrier to prevent sniper attacks or kidnappings, relying instead on automated technology. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Orders to Abandon Positions
Surveillance soldiers, known in Hebrew as tatzpitaniyot, testified that their warnings of suspicious border activity in the days leading up to the attack were repeatedly ignored. During the early hours of the assault, female observation soldiers at bases like Nahal Oz reported that they were ordered by commanders to abandon their forward monitoring positions and retreat into interior war rooms. Many of these soldiers were subsequently killed or taken hostage when the base was overrun. [1, 2, 3, 4]

The Hannibal Directive
During the active invasion, journalists reported on operational directives issued by the IDF to prevent Hamas militants from crossing back into Gaza with Israeli hostages "at all costs". Investigations by outlets like Haaretz revealed that the controversial Hannibal Directive was employed at several infiltrated army facilities. This military protocol allows the use of maximum force, including firing on combatants and the captives they are holding, to prevent abductions. [1, 2, 3]

Internal Investigations
In its internal investigation summary, the IDF acknowledged a "complete failure" in its mission to protect civilians. The military postmortem highlighted deep intelligence failures, underestimation of Hamas capabilities, and poor coordination. Some soldiers who arrived at the scenes of ongoing attacks have expressed frustration and confusion regarding delayed response times and orders they received

All a big coincidence I'm sure.



Ah yes, a Western more offended by a slogan "from the river to the sea" which would mean the erasure of the state of Israel, but not Israel refusing to recognize the Palestinian state, constant expansionism, illegal settlements, cries for literal ethnic cleansing by wanting to displace every civilian in Gaza, etc... You see, that's OK, as long as no one's feelings are hurt by a slogan.

Meanwhile, not a peep about "Greater Israel" which is a concept revered by sitting politicians including the current Israel Prime Minister. Nope. Not one.




Wow. OK, this one takes the cake. First of all, there is some serious cognitive dissonance here. You want me to open the dictionary and read what Zionism means, as if this is more telling than the practices and statements of Zionists. It's truly incredible.

Is the dictionary supposed to contain caveats that the establishment of said Jewish state will come at the expense of Arabs and the land they're living on? Is it supposed to contain political commentary on the link between Zionism and settler/colonialism?

This really is an amazing argument because it's essentially saying: Why use Zionism as a curse words? Look at what the dictionary says...but ignore the ramifications of this ideology, the treatment of Ethiopian Jews, Christians, Palestinians, etc... Nope nothing in common with fascism, nothing at all.

Violence against Christians in Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A whole Wikipedia article about how Christians are treated in Israel.

An article dating back to 2004 on the treatment of Christians in Israel:

Ultra-orthodox Jews 'must stop religious abuse'

Conal Urquhart: Jerusalem's Christian community has demanded that Jewish leaders and the Israeli government take action against what they claim is growing harassment of their clergy by religious Jews.

www.theguardian.com

An article pre October 7 in 2023 where Christians are begging Israelis not to spit on them anymore:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-attacks-continue-some-religious-jerusalemites-embrace-christian-marchers/

Here's an article on how allegations that contraceptive injections were widespread against Ethiopian-Israeli women. I'm sure the color of their skin is a coincidence. Yeah, nothing in common with Nazis there.

Sexual and gender-based violence against Palestinians during the Gaza war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A whole Wikipedia article on sexual violence against Palestinians.

Shackled, bleeding, raped: Palestinians describe abuse in Israel’s prisons

Former detainees tell Al Jazeera they were routinely sexually abused, starved and attacked by dogs.

www.aljazeera.com

More.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/11/opinion/israel-palestinians-sexual-violence.html

This is a New Yor Times article. When the fucking New York Times reports on this, you know it's bad.

But you see, who cares about the above, because it's not mentioned in the dictionary. I'm sure none of this has anything to do with Zionism...except the part where it's committed by Zionists, sanctioned by Zionists, and in the case of the below, protected by the Zionist mob.

Here are Israeli LAWMAKERS defending the right to rape Palestinian prisoners. I'll look up whether the dictionary mentions anything about that next to Zionism. If not, I guess Zionism is cleared of all charges.

Israeli lawmaker defends alleged rape of Hamas prisoner as far-right protesters rage over IDF troops' detention

Far-right Israelis try to storm military base and lawmaker defends rape of Hamas suspects as 9 IDF reservists face questioning over alleged prisoner abuse.

www.cbsnews.com

Israeli protesters rally for ‘the right to rape’ prisoners

Protesters, politicians and TV commentators in Israel are defending the right of soldiers to mistreat prisoners.

www.aljazeera.com

• Yoav Gallant, Defense Minister: “No electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything is closed. We are fighting human animals…”
• Isaac Herzog, President: “It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible… It’s absolutely not true” that civilians are not involved.
• Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister: invoked Amalek before the Gaza ground invasion: “You must remember what Amalek has done to you,” a biblical reference South Africa framed as genocidal because the cited passage concerns total destruction.
• Israel Katz, then Energy Minister: “All the civilian population in Gaza is ordered to leave immediately… They will not receive a drop of water or a single battery until they leave the world.”
• Itamar Ben-Gvir, National Security Minister: “Those who celebrate, those who support, and those who hand out candy — they’re all terrorists, and they should also be destroyed.”
• Bezalel Smotrich, Finance Minister: “We need to deal a blow that hasn’t been seen in 50 years and take down Gaza.”
• Amichai Eliyahu, Heritage Minister: “The north of the Gaza Strip, more beautiful than ever. Everything is blown up and flattened…” He also argued there were no uninvolved civilians and floated a nuclear strike as “one of the possibilities.”
• Avi Dichter, Agriculture Minister: “We are now actually rolling out the Gaza Nakba.”
• Nissim Vaturi, Deputy Speaker of the Knesset: “Now we all have one common goal — erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the earth.”
• Ghassan Alian, COGAT / Israeli army official: “Human animals are dealt with accordingly… no electricity, no water, just damage. You wanted hell, you will get hell.

Very normal peaceful statements by a very normal politicians belonging to a very normal ideology.



The condescension is out of control. Yeah man, I totally need to Google Israel's wars with my country. Thanks Mr. Maple Leaf. Without you, my limited Arab brain would have never been enlightened to my region's history with the country currently bombing it.

I love how you mention the 1982 invasion of Lebanon as a passing statement. Like oh yeah, there was that time. You know, that time Israel invaded Lebanon based on a bullshit premise and a false flag in Iraq (trademark move), committed so many atrocities against civilians that RONALD FUCKING REAGAN was like "uh guys, this is too much," orchestrated the Sabra and Chatila massacre after the Palestinians had laid down their arms, and...proceeded to occupy Lebanon for 18 years. That's all. So yeah, if you ignore that one time, Israel only retaliates. Do you hear yourself? Eighteen years of occupation, the Khiam detention center in which prisoners were detained without due process and kept their until the liberation of the south, to some unspeakable horrors, torture, sexual violence, etc...

Yeah so you're right just that one time....which also happens to be the reason Hezbollah was created. As you surely know, Hezbollah was formed as a response to the Israeli invasion of 1982, and they played an important role in liberating the south in 2000 after said 18 years. But no, for you, it's "when Israel retaliates, all hell breaks loose" (as if what happened in Gaza and continues to happen could still be labelled as retaliation. Please don't be ridiculous. It's been 3 years), but when Hezbollah is formed because another country invaded their country, it's "those filthy terrorists."

Also it's truly incredible what mind tricks your bias is allowing you to play. Israel doesn't initiate...except those millions of times it's broken the ceasefire, be it in Gaza or in Lebanon. Following the ceasefire of November 2024 with Lebanon, Israel bombed the country for 13 straight months without so much as a bullet fired in retaliation from Hezbollah. You see, that doesn't count as aggression. Because if Israel is attacked it has a lifetime pass to do as it pleases, but Israel invading Lebanon unprovoked and occupying the country for 18 years doesn't give Hezbollah the right to retain its weapons. Just world class analysis there.

Good luck with your struggle. This "fuckhead" is out. When you learn to argue your points like a normal human, we may talk again. I have no problem educating the fanatics. Just not into name calling. Too old for this.

 

[brokenshoelace]

we should never forget the reasons why it's existence became necessary.

Yeah, a racist, genocidal, Christian white nationalist with an ugly mustache and a limp penis kills 6 million Jews, and the necessary thing to do of course, is take it out on Arab farmers.

 

[Murat B.]

Canada's MAID program ( Medical Assistance in Dying) is looking to expand, as if it was not bad enough. When this program started , it was strictly for terminal people who were suffering immensely and death was imminent. Most sane people said this was a slippery slope. Of course we were right. Right now MAID is the 5th leading cause of death in Canada. Now, powers that be are pushing to add people with mental illnesses to the list. These people have no physical illnesses at all ! None. No pain, no stage 4 pancreatic cancer or anything. Only a mental issue. And believe me, I am not saying mental issues are not important but fuck...A high ranked army official was offered MAID because he has PTSD !
This is what socialized medicine does to a country, combined with moronic leftists people who run it. They would rather kill you than treat you because it saves money.

 

[Federberg]

Canada's MAID program ( Medical Assistance in Dying) is looking to expand, as if it was not bad enough. When this program started , it was strictly for terminal people who were suffering immensely and death was imminent. Most sane people said this was a slippery slope. Of course we were right. Right now MAID is the 5th leading cause of death in Canada. Now, powers that be are pushing to add people with mental illnesses to the list. These people have no physical illnesses at all ! None. No pain, no stage 4 pancreatic cancer or anything. Only a mental issue. And believe me, I am not saying mental issues are not important but fuck...A high ranked army official was offered MAID because he has PTSD !
This is what socialized medicine does to a country, combined with moronic leftists people who run it. They would rather kill you than treat you because it saves money.

Every time I think the UK is the worst of the woke West, something happens in Canada to slap me sensible again

 

[Murat B.]

Every time I think the UK is the worst of the woke West, something happens in Canada to slap me sensible again

UK is at the top for free speech issues. We are still not being arrested here for social media posts directly. But we are getting there .

 

[brokenshoelace]

British journalist Sami Hamdi detained by ICE

US Immigration and Customs Enforcement alleges he "supports terrorism", a claim his supporters deny.

www.bbc.com

Free speech in the free world, as always.

 

[Kieran]

Yeah, a racist, genocidal, Christian white nationalist with an ugly mustache and a limp penis kills 6 million Jews, and the necessary thing to do of course, is take it out on Arab farmers.

No, not only the failed Austrian artist. Not only the Nazis. Not only the communists too, but also citizens who gleefully snitched out their Jewish neighbours. Not only snitching, but pogroms like the Kaunas Pogrom in 1941 in Lithuania. Europe proved itself unworthy of its Jewish population. Even now, in the orgiastic fury that comprises the outsized attention that Israel gets, my missus own brother, her father, have always skipped the old “Jewish banks” or other conspiracy shit as a way of blaming Jews for everything. They don’t make distinctions between Jews-particular and Jews-common in their discussions. “Why are Jews so hated?” is a question they’ll ask, but it's a rhetorical question, it’s not asked too invite an answer but to show that the question itself is an obvious explanation of why Jews deserve to be hated.

They bring it on themselves. They must have done something to deserve it. They’re Jews. They’re untrustworthy. They’re successful. They’re grasping and hook nosed.

They would be in kindred spirit with the most ugly sections of the left who roared that we have to believe all women but then roar even louder that this nicety does not extend to itself to Jewish women, who were raped on October 7th.

I do feel for the ordinary honest citizens who are trying to escape the scourge of Islamism in the ME, the Palestinians who marched to be free of Hamas, the Iranians who want to be free from the ayatollahs, but I feel that the tiny Jewish population on our world deserve much better than the treatment they receive, anywhere..

 

[Federberg]

UK is at the top for free speech issues. We are still not being arrested here for social media posts directly. But we are getting there .

something to aspire to

 

[Federberg]

No, not only the failed Austrian artist. Not only the Nazis. Not only the communists too, but also citizens who gleefully snitched out their Jewish neighbours. Not only snitching, but pogroms like the Kaunas Pogrom in 1941 in Lithuania. Europe proved itself unworthy of its Jewish population. Even now, in the orgiastic fury that comprises the outsized attention that Israel gets, my missus own brother, her father, have always skipped the old “Jewish banks” or other conspiracy shit as a way of blaming Jews for everything. They don’t make distinctions between Jews-particular and Jews-common in their discussions. “Why are Jews so hated?” is a question they’ll ask, but it's a rhetorical question, it’s not asked too invite an answer but to show that the question itself is an obvious explanation of why Jews deserve to be hated.

They bring it on themselves. They must have done something to deserve it. They’re Jews. They’re untrustworthy. They’re successful. They’re grasping and hook nosed.

They would be in kindred spirit with the most ugly sections of the left who roared that we have to believe all women but then roar even louder that this nicety does not extend to itself to Jewish women, who were raped on October 7th.

I do feel for the ordinary honest citizens who are trying to escape the scourge of Islamism in the ME, the Palestinians who marched to be free of Hamas, the Iranians who want to be free from the ayatollahs, but I feel that the tiny Jewish population on our world deserve much better than the treatment they receive, anywhere..

this is a valid point. I have dear friends who are good people. But they have one blind spot... Jews. I constantly have to exercise caution when figuring out which friends I can allow to meet. I have two who I've known.. each over twenty years.. that I would never allow to meet... EVER. Because one of them has a rabid distrust of Jews. The other is Jewish. I constantly have to debate with him about how the "globalists" aren't responsible for this or that. I repeat this is a good guy. I trust him. His heart is golden. But this... distrust.. loathing... it's real. I can't get my brain around indicting an entire race or religion, but a lot of people do. It's quiet, it's pervasive. Hell I was asked by a friend of one of my friends where I lived last week, and when I mentioned the town, he frowned and said? Isn't that a Jewish town? It is actually. I could only nod and smile.

On the other hand there's a similar and growing issue regarding muslims in the UK. Again.. you can't indict an entire religion. But what the government is doing with what is clearly a two tier system is actually fuelling the problem. We live in dark times, and I'm not sure we have the leaders to solve the problems. Too many people are afraid of offending people. Newsflash! Doing the right thing will definitely upset people. But if it's right then they'll just have to deal with it.

 

[Murat B.]

No, not only the failed Austrian artist. Not only the Nazis. Not only the communists too, but also citizens who gleefully snitched out their Jewish neighbours. Not only snitching, but pogroms like the Kaunas Pogrom in 1941 in Lithuania. Europe proved itself unworthy of its Jewish population. Even now, in the orgiastic fury that comprises the outsized attention that Israel gets, my missus own brother, her father, have always skipped the old “Jewish banks” or other conspiracy shit as a way of blaming Jews for everything. They don’t make distinctions between Jews-particular and Jews-common in their discussions. “Why are Jews so hated?” is a question they’ll ask, but it's a rhetorical question, it’s not asked too invite an answer but to show that the question itself is an obvious explanation of why Jews deserve to be hated.

They bring it on themselves. They must have done something to deserve it. They’re Jews. They’re untrustworthy. They’re successful. They’re grasping and hook nosed.

They would be in kindred spirit with the most ugly sections of the left who roared that we have to believe all women but then roar even louder that this nicety does not extend to itself to Jewish women, who were raped on October 7th.

I do feel for the ordinary honest citizens who are trying to escape the scourge of Islamism in the ME, the Palestinians who marched to be free of Hamas, the Iranians who want to be free from the ayatollahs, but I feel that the tiny Jewish population on our world deserve much better than the treatment they receive, anywhere..

Just as a side note...Do you know which country lost most Jews during the second world war, percentage wise? Holland. Out of 140 thousand Jews, 104 thousand were exterminated by Nazis. You know why? Good record keeping and administrative efficiency ! Lesson? Do not volunteer information and fuck the census forms .

 

[Kieran]

this is a valid point. I have dear friends who are good people. But they have one blind spot... Jews. I constantly have to exercise caution when figuring out which friends I can allow to meet. I have two who I've known.. each over twenty years.. that I would never allow to meet... EVER. Because one of them has a rabid distrust of Jews. The other is Jewish. I constantly have to debate with him about how the "globalists" aren't responsible for this or that. I repeat this is a good guy. I trust him. His heart is golden. But this... distrust.. loathing... it's real. I can't get my brain around indicting an entire race or religion, but a lot of people do. It's quiet, it's pervasive. Hell I was asked by a friend of one of my friends where I lived last week, and when I mentioned the town, he frowned and said? Isn't that a Jewish town? It is actually. I could only nod and smile.

On the other hand there's a similar and growing issue regarding muslims in the UK. Again.. you can't indict an entire religion. But what the government is doing with what is clearly a two tier system is actually fuelling the problem. We live in dark times, and I'm not sure we have the leaders to solve the problems. Too many people are afraid of offending people. Newsflash! Doing the right thing will definitely upset people. But if it's right then they'll just have to deal with it.

Hating Jews seems to be a safe or acceptable prejudice to have, and now it’s wide open. Saw a kid the other day refused a job because he didn’t want to work for Jews. This kind of cocky, petty stuff. Our governments don’t help, and certainly not the Irish government whose level of thought rarely rises above the level of the mob. It was a rich satisfaction for me when Ireland virtuously absented ourselves from the Eurovision Song Contest but Israel came second. The silent majority finds subtle ways to be heard. Last year we did enter and Israel had the biggest vote in Ireland. We’re not all without principle! But still, Jewish people are wary here and the worst element in our country are becoming louder. When I drive home to Wicklow I see Palestinian flags on the bridge over the dual carriageway, I see graffiti on a certain mountainside wall has a different line of bull every week, always about the Jewish state. I see people wearing masks, and I’d swear blind that if I had power, the wearing of masks at a political rally or protest would be banned. Show your ugly faces, you yellow dribbles of shit!

There’s a helluva lot of countries you’d avoid like the plague that are glad the tiny Jewish state exists and takes all the attention away from them..

 

[britbox]

Finding the behaviour of the Israeli state in Gaza and the surrounding areas reprehensible is not the same as hating Jews... sorry. Does it make sense to hate a group of people based on the actions of a leader of a nation state? Do people on here who have complained about Putin blanket-hate all Russians? I doubt it, and they would be stupid if they did.

If one is to take individual people as we find them... you'll get the good, bad and the ugly in all shapes and sizes - nationalities, faiths, political persuasions. Sure, you will get some protesters jumping on any old bandwagon, but you'll also get many with deep convictions if you bother to speak to them.

 

[Kieran]

Finding the behaviour of the Israeli state in Gaza and the surrounding areas reprehensible is not the same as hating Jews... sorry. Does it make sense to hate a group of people based on the actions of a leader of a nation state? Do people on here who have complained about Putin blanket-hate all Russians? I doubt it, and they would be stupid if they did.

If one is to take individual people as we find them... you'll get the good, bad and the ugly in all shapes and sizes - nationalities, faiths, political persuasions. Sure, you will get some protesters jumping on any old bandwagon, but you'll also get many with deep convictions if you bother to speak to them.

If people singled out the Russian state among all nations, and attacked and threatened Russians wherever they live, regardless of what they thought of Putin and his landgrab, of course we would say that people have a more a problem with Russians than they have with Putin and his war.

Remember, it doesn’t matter if a Jew lives in Timbuktu or the moon, and they’re anti-Zionist themselves, they will still bear the brunt. Jews are in the crosshairs for the worst sorts of people, yet again. They don’t have to be Israeli, and we can see that explicitly now - that’s just something people use for cover..

 

[britbox]

If people singled out the Russian state among all nations, and attacked and threatened Russians wherever they live, regardless of what they thought of Putin and his landgrab, of course we would say that people have a more a problem with Russians than they have with Putin and his war.

Remember, it doesn’t matter if a Jew lives in Timbuktu or the moon, and they’re anti-Zionist themselves, they will still bear the brunt. Jews are in the crosshairs for the worst sorts of people, yet again. They don’t have to be Israeli, and we can see that explicitly now - that’s just something people use for cover..

That's your interpretation. I don't buy it in a general sense. Sure, you'll get extremists who meet your criteria but the vast majority of people aren't in that category. Worryingly, far more people seem to be in a category that seem to have complete indifference to a genocide, and then there is an even more extremist group that seem to think it's actually OK.

 

[brokenshoelace]

No, not only the failed Austrian artist. Not only the Nazis. Not only the communists too, but also citizens who gleefully snitched out their Jewish neighbours. Not only snitching, but pogroms like the Kaunas Pogrom in 1941 in Lithuania. Europe proved itself unworthy of its Jewish population. Even now, in the orgiastic fury that comprises the outsized attention that Israel gets, my missus own brother, her father, have always skipped the old “Jewish banks” or other conspiracy shit as a way of blaming Jews for everything. They don’t make distinctions between Jews-particular and Jews-common in their discussions. “Why are Jews so hated?” is a question they’ll ask, but it's a rhetorical question, it’s not asked too invite an answer but to show that the question itself is an obvious explanation of why Jews deserve to be hated.

They bring it on themselves. They must have done something to deserve it. They’re Jews. They’re untrustworthy. They’re successful. They’re grasping and hook nosed.

They would be in kindred spirit with the most ugly sections of the left who roared that we have to believe all women but then roar even louder that this nicety does not extend to itself to Jewish women, who were raped on October 7th.

I do feel for the ordinary honest citizens who are trying to escape the scourge of Islamism in the ME, the Palestinians who marched to be free of Hamas, the Iranians who want to be free from the ayatollahs, but I feel that the tiny Jewish population on our world deserve much better than the treatment they receive, anywhere..

Oh I wholeheartedly agree with all of the above. Except, this again raises my initial question: If Europe failed the Jews, and it most certainly has, and yes, it goes far beyond Hitler (in fact, he's become the de facto scarecrow and an easy distraction for Europe to pin its failures on, as if the whole ideology was not adopted by millions), this begs the question, why were Arabs the ones to pay the price? More importantly, how come white people, and not for the first time, escape the scathing vitriol directed at literally every minority when they do something bad? Immigrants stir trouble and rampant islamophobia ensues. A racist, fascist ideology is adopted by millions, resulting in the biggest tragedy in Europe's modern history and it's "our Judeo-Christian values! Those filthy primitive Arabs!"

Or, at best, we hear something lukewarm like "oh yeah, the West has its failures..." As if 6 million dead jews is merely a "failure," and not an indication of something far more monstrous and sinister.

Truly amazing how white, capitalist hegemony just manages to brainwash.