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Fiero425

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Yep..I think someone should have said "Dude, its painful to watch you walk". Its amazing how great McEnroe looks.

Speaking of these 2, I recall a Senior match-up, m/b The Courier Tour several yrs. ago where McEnroe was going against Agassi! Andre was running the old guy like it was an official major! John was literally imploring him to ease up as he had a bad leg! :astonished-face::angry-face::fearful-face::face-with-hand-over-mouth:
 
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AnonymousFan

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I miss the Champions/Legends tour, haven't seen it on TV since 2019. Probably canceled? Courier and McEnroe played each other a lot over the years
 
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Fiero425

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Happy for Roger and my old folks taught me if you cant say something nice about someone (Mary C) for me than just stay quiet.

I just saw this & felt compelled to share:

NovakallXGreats.jpg


The Real GOAT List: #1 Djokovic - - - - - - - #1 Martina Navratilova (59 Majors)
#2 Nadal, #3 Federer, #4 Sampras - - -- - - #2 Serena Wms., #3 Graf, #4 Court
#5 Borg, #6 Laver, #7 Agassi - - - - - - - - #5 Evert, #6 BJK., #7 Seles, #8 Henin
#8 Lendl, #9 McEnroe, #10 Connors - - - - - - - #9 Hingis, #10 Goolagong
 
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Jelenafan

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I just saw this & felt compelled to share:

View attachment 11058
I dunno, no denying Fed’s gifts but that is such a subjective list, if he was the greatest all court player should have had more than a single French Open…yea I know Rafa is the GOAT on clay but we are talking greatest all around game….much as it pains me Novak IMO…

Too many folks give Roger “style” points which honestly is even more subjective & irrelevant, both Rafa & Novak for example broke serve with their returns more than Fed if I’m not mistaken
 
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Fiero425

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I dunno, no denying Fed’s gifts but that is such a subjective list, if he was the greatest all court player should have had more than a single French Open…yea I know Rafa is the GOAT on clay but we are talking greatest all around game….much as it pains me Novak IMO…

Too many folks give Roger “style” points which honestly is even more subjective & irrelevant, both Rafa & Novak for example broke serve with their returns more than Fed if I’m not mistaken

Unfortunately, it's Roger's style pts. that keep elevating him unfairly above Djokovic! What's so sad is, it's continuing well past his retirement! He's in the HOF FGS! It would've been more credible if Fed had left after his 2012 Wimbledon win! The Tennis Intelligentsia could legitimately muse or hypothesize a "what if" scenerio even if & when Nadovic overtook his 17 Majors! IMO his ego wouldn't allow it! He went 5 1/2 yrs. to add those last 3 Majors, but he was run down for the overall lead anyway by Nadal & Djokovic! Sampras sat on his laurels for almost a decade before Roger took over w/ 15 Majors in 2009! IMO, Roger went at least 2 yrs. past his expiration date of 2019! His last real harrah outside The Laver Cup was dropping yet another Major final to Djokovic while holding MP's in 2019 Wimbledon event! I have to add Djokovic is about to achieve something no other player comes close to in owning 100 singles wins at each Major! That should have told people the most when deciding who's the overall GOAT on all surfaces! :angry-face::yawningface::fearful-face::face-with-hand-over-mouth:
 
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PhiEaglesfan712

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Unfortunately, it's Roger's style pts. that keep elevating him unfairly above Djokovic! What's so sad is, it's continuing well past his retirement! He's in the HOF FGS! It would've been more credible if Fed had left after his 2012 Wimbledon win! The Tennis Intelligentsia could legitimately muse or hypothesize a "what if" scenerio even if & when Nadovic overtook his 17 Majors! IMO his ego wouldn't allow it! He went 5 1/2 yrs. to add those last 3 Majors, but he was run down for the overall lead anyway by Nadal & Djokovic! Sampras sat on his laurels for almost a decade before Roger took over w/ 15 Majors in 2009! IMO, Roger went at least 2 yrs. past his expiration date of 2019! His last real harrah outside The Laver Cup was dropping yet another Major final to Djokovic while holding MP's in 2019 Wimbledon event! I have to add Djokovic is about to achieve something no other player comes close to in owning 100 singles wins at each Major! That should have told people the most when deciding who's the overall GOAT on all surfaces! :angry-face::yawningface::fearful-face::face-with-hand-over-mouth:
The "what if" case would have been even stronger if Fed left after the 2010 AO, his 16th slam (at age 28), after winning 4 of the previous 6 slams (one each: 2008 US Open, 2009 FO, 2009 Wimbledon, and 2010 AO). That was his true apex. After winning the 2010 AO, Fed waited 2.5 years to win 2012 Wimbledon, and never won again at the US Open or FO.

But to me, the story doesn't feel complete if Fed retires after the 2010 AO or 2012 Wimbledon. Fed needed to win those final slams, and go toe-to-toe with his rivals at 2019 Wimbledon. Some days, I wish Fed would have had a farewell season in 2023 to fully complete the story, instead of having the bagel be his last official set. I would have loved to seen a Federer-Alcaraz or Federer-Sinner match on the way out.
 

mrzz

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I dunno, no denying Fed’s gifts but that is such a subjective list, if he was the greatest all court player should have had more than a single French Open…yea I know Rafa is the GOAT on clay but we are talking greatest all around game….much as it pains me Novak IMO…

Too many folks give Roger “style” points which honestly is even more subjective & irrelevant, both Rafa & Novak for example broke serve with their returns more than Fed if I’m not mistaken
The difference in number of French Opens between Djokovic and Federer is mainly due to the fact of who was forced to face prime Nadal (on clay) for most of his succesfull years. Djokovic could well end up with zero French Opens if he were one year older than Nadal. And, there is the ethernal "homogenization of surfaces" discussion. But it is true that lot of people say that Federer is the better all around player based on the *assumption* he would fare better across surfaces in a different era (what I think is completely true, to be honest).

And, yes, if you focus just on actual results, the end of all discussions will probably be simply "Djokovic".

Back t the point, of course, the tree of them are, each in his own way, extremely good regarding an all around game. But, IMO, Federer is the one who "adapts" more to the surface, while Nadal and Djokovic developed a playing style that basically translates to everything.
 

Front242

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Who ran off Fronty.? All these failed drug tests which is Front's forte'
Yeah I saw about Kyrgios but cocaine isn't performance enhancing at all for tennis so the likely punishment he'll get for this will be ridiculous cos they don't like him which is unjust. Haven't had much time for posting at all lately. Personally I think he's decent enough as a commentator so hopefully that goes in his favour as regards their decision cos it's hardly on par with actual cheats.
 

the AntiPusher

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Yeah I saw about Kyrgios but cocaine isn't performance enhancing at all for tennis so the likely punishment he'll get for this will be ridiculous cos they don't like him which is unjust. Haven't had much time for posting at all lately. Personally I think he's decent enough as a commentator so hopefully that goes in his favour as regards their decision cos it's hardly on par with actual cheats.
Hey Dude.. How's life.. Here's our boi.. Tsitisnitch

 

the AntiPusher

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Yeah I saw about Kyrgios but cocaine isn't performance enhancing at all for tennis so the likely punishment he'll get for this will be ridiculous cos they don't like him which is unjust. Haven't had much time for posting at all lately. Personally I think he's decent enough as a commentator so hopefully that goes in his favour as regards their decision cos it's hardly on par with actual cheats.
I think that the networks may shy away from him especially the mouse Disney ESPN .. It was obvious that he was on something.. Who knows Nick may out others..
 

Jelenafan

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The difference in number of French Opens between Djokovic and Federer is mainly due to the fact of who was forced to face prime Nadal (on clay) for most of his succesfull years. Djokovic could well end up with zero French Opens if he were one year older than Nadal. And, there is the ethernal "homogenization of surfaces" discussion. But it is true that lot of people say that Federer is the better all around player based on the *assumption* he would fare better across surfaces in a different era (what I think is completely true, to be honest).

….
It’s funny, I always thought Nadal would have ended up faring much better if he hadn’t been sandwiched between Federer & Djokovic.
 
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Jelenafan

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To my:
It’s funny, I always thought Nadal would have ended up faring much better if he hadn’t been sandwiched between Federer & Djokovic.

Listen , I enjoy a stylish point as much as the next person, but tennis like so many competitive sports is about execution, not how it’s done. 15-30-40-game. Be the first to win the game point in every damn game. 6 games for a set. 7 in a tiebreaker (with its own rules) , win 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 5 sets.

Gymnastics, figure skating, etc have a criteria so
so speak for “form”, ie how you stick the landing, etc. tennis does not, though of course as fans we can all choose our aesthetic preferences, which is ok.

The one criteria that distinguishes all the all time greats is mental strength/fortitude. The will & drive to win.

Laver had it, Pancho Gonzales ( I did not seem him live) obviously had it, Borg, Sampras, and of course Federer, Nadal & Djokovic.

Now playing surfaces change, equipment changes, for example the rackets & strings today give even journeyman players unimaginable power & spin that all time prior greats did not possess.

Now if we start to assume or speculate that Federer could have done better in a prior era or with conditions that did not change at the outset of his career, ok, fair enough hypothesis. He was a great champion and his mental strength would come through, and like all champs he thrived in *his* era because he adapted to the conditions around him.

Likewise Rafa ( and Djokovic) were mental Giants, and I’m just speculating they would have thrived and perhaps won more in different circumstances. ( I’ve even from prior greats speculated Borg winning 10 Wimbledon’s & 10 French opens each) It’s not disparaging Federer to say those champs could also have won more, again as mrzz acknowledged, speculative assumption.
 
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