2015 Masters Series 1000 Miami Final: Djokovic v. Murray

[Front242]

Well, I enjoyed Run All Night a lot more than watching a bagel 3rd set. Glad I made the choice to skip this one and Novak won as expected. He's certainly started 2015 with a bang.

 

[Riotbeard]

Okay, let's straighten something else out here. How can you say Andy is moving in the right direction when he gets bageled on his home court?

To be fair, he is losing in the finals of big tournaments this year. He couldn't even get to the finals of a masters or slam last year. It is the right direction, just slower than desirable to most of his fans, I am sure.

Andy was coming back from surgery last year, so the lack of results might reflect that. He got creamed in the semis of IW and made the final of Oz and Miami without facing either Fed or Nadal. So (to me), that really isn't improvement.

Whatever the reason, this is still better tennis and results from Andy than last year. It is what it is. What makes this season look so bad is how he choking at key moments, but he is moving in the right direction. Last season, he didn't even have important moments to choke during.

 

[Mile]

I dont belive Amelie is weak point here, i rather have feeling she is doing her job well. But she is no psychiatre. The Muzz could pass all "tennis" coaches, wouldnt help much. Lendl realized that.

 

[nehmeth]

To be fair, he is losing in the finals of big tournaments this year. He couldn't even get to the finals of a masters or slam last year. It is the right direction, just slower than desirable to most of his fans, I am sure.

Andy was coming back from surgery last year, so the lack of results might reflect that. He got creamed in the semis of IW and made the final of Oz and Miami without facing either Fed or Nadal. So (to me), that really isn't improvement.

Whatever the reason, this is still better tennis and results from Andy than last year. It is what it is. What makes this season look so bad is how he choking at key moments, but he is moving in the right direction. Last season, he didn't even have important moments to choke during.

I know you like Andy, but even though I think he's a turd, at least I can see that Mauresmo is not helping him where he needs it - between his ears.

 

[Billie]

What an effort by triple double IW-Mia champ!:clap

Not playing well, facing elimination against Dolgopolov, being mentally tired of tennis, yet he finds a way to win. He really wanted this title to make history. Well done Nole!:heart::angel:

 

[Riotbeard]

Andy was coming back from surgery last year, so the lack of results might reflect that. He got creamed in the semis of IW and made the final of Oz and Miami without facing either Fed or Nadal. So (to me), that really isn't improvement.

Whatever the reason, this is still better tennis and results from Andy than last year. It is what it is. What makes this season look so bad is how he choking at key moments, but he is moving in the right direction. Last season, he didn't even have important moments to choke during.

I know you like Andy, but even though I think he's a turd, at least I can see that Mauresmo is not helping him where he needs it - between his ears.

You might be right. I am not convinced by Mauresmo (either way). Andy would probably better than he was a year ago without her, but there are some positives to be taken from Andy's year so far. Even as disappointing as the last set was at the AO (for his fans. I loved it because nole is supreme), he didn't get straight setted like his first 4 slam finals. Also I think most of the responsibility is on Andy. I think Lendl helped him a lot, but he should have learned from that how to win. His coach shouldn't be this central to his play at this point in his career.

 

[TennisFanatic7]

Thank you Riotbeard for having some common sense and explaining to nehmeth what should be blatantly clear to anyone, that Murray is getting better results now than he was in the early days with Amelie.

Last year Andy got past the quarter finals in one of the slams and didn't reach a single Masters semi final. He has 2 final appearances and a semi final run from three slam/Masters tournaments already this year.

Last year it took Andy until the about the US Open to beat any player in the top 10. This year he's already got 3(?) top ten wins. Perhaps he still isn't beating the top 3 but it's only Djokovic that has been knocking him out of the meaningful tournaments. He hasn't beaten Federer or Nadal but the only tournament that either of those guys have gone deep enough to cross paths with Andy is Indian Wells.

Whichever way you look at it, Murray has moved in the right direction since Wimbledon last year which is when Amelie took over. You can't look at one set today, which was a blowout as soon as those first three close games went to Nole, and say that proves that Andy hasn't made any progress in that time.

 

[Kirijax]

Lendl and the other staff proved that Murray could be a winner. Mauresmo is the wrong coach.

 

[Riotbeard]

Lendl and the other staff proved that Murray could be a winner. Mauresmo is the wrong coach.

Andy is an adult. Maybe she is the wrong coach for him, but his failings should sit on his shoulders either way. I think the coach thing is a red herring. Andy has only had one coach who had dramatic effects on his game like that.

 

[TennisFanatic7]

OK, let's straighten something out. Dolgopolov is no serious threat to defeat Nole, he is talented enough to steal a set but not more than that.

Let's straighten something else out, Dolgopolov was up a set and 4-1 and he lost from that position. How you can shrug that off as a 'nah, he was never a threat' situation is absolutely baffling.

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk

We are seeing this differently, obviously. Dolgo has a history of inconsistency from one match to another as well as within one match, because of his high risk style, with low margin for error.
I was not afraid for Nole, even when the Dog was up a break in the second, because it was Dolgo on the other side of the net.
And if you are annoyed with him, because he did not do the dirty work, why are you not upset with your boy who is even worse, deflating like a cheap tent at the end of his matches.

I never said anything along the lines of "Dolgopolov should beat Djokovic" because that would be stupid but its pretty clear that in that match, Nole was close to losing. I struggle to believe that you weren't afraid your guy would lose at a set and 4-1 down, but this argument is beside the point as I'm not grumping against Dolgopolov failing to beat Nole - I was originally tongue-in-cheek with my comment, and I apologise if that wasn't clear, perhaps I should have thrown a smiley in there or something.

 

[nehmeth]

Thank you Riotbeard for having some common sense and explaining to nehmeth what should be blatantly clear to anyone, that Murray is getting better results now than he was in the early days with Amelie.

Last year Andy got past the quarter finals in one of the slams and didn't reach a single Masters semi final. He has 2 final appearances and a semi final run from three slam/Masters tournaments already this year.

Last year it took Andy until the about the US Open to beat any player in the top 10. This year he's already got 3(?) top ten wins. Perhaps he still isn't beating the top 3 but it's only Djokovic that has been knocking him out of the meaningful tournaments. He hasn't beaten Federer or Nadal but the only tournament that either of those guys have gone deep enough to cross paths with Andy is Indian Wells.

Whichever way you look at it, Murray has moved in the right direction since Wimbledon last year which is when Amelie took over. You can't look at one set today, which was a blowout as soon as those first three close games went to Nole, and say that proves that Andy hasn't made any progress in that time.

Better results by not facing Fedal at all but still getting beaten handily by Novak. Seriously, don't you think he could have achieved the same results with anyone coaching him? I think Mile said it best, that Amelie is doing her job and your boy just needs a psychiatrist!

 

[Billie]

I dont belive Amelie is weak point here, i rather have feeling she is doing her job well. But she is no psychiatre. The Muzz could pass all "tennis" coaches, wouldnt help much. Lendl realized that.

I've gotten a lot of grief before for saying that Nole is a better player than Murray. People forget that Nole was coming to those 2 finals that he lost to Andy in a rough physical shape. Andy absolutely deserved to win those as he was the last man standing, but it didn't prove to me that he somehow "solved" the Djokovic problem or that Lendl was some kind of super coach. I also think that Lendl realized that Murray had a bit of luck on his side in winning those 2 matches and bailed out of the relationship before Andy started to lose again.

Andy had a perfect chance today as everybody could see that Nole was struggling, yet the nerves got to him again. I wasn't paying attention to it, but somebody said that Nole beat Andy in every match since that Wimbledon final. I don't know if that is true or not, but it is telling.

 

[TennisFanatic7]

Thank you Riotbeard for having some common sense and explaining to nehmeth what should be blatantly clear to anyone, that Murray is getting better results now than he was in the early days with Amelie.

Last year Andy got past the quarter finals in one of the slams and didn't reach a single Masters semi final. He has 2 final appearances and a semi final run from three slam/Masters tournaments already this year.

Last year it took Andy until the about the US Open to beat any player in the top 10. This year he's already got 3(?) top ten wins. Perhaps he still isn't beating the top 3 but it's only Djokovic that has been knocking him out of the meaningful tournaments. He hasn't beaten Federer or Nadal but the only tournament that either of those guys have gone deep enough to cross paths with Andy is Indian Wells.

Whichever way you look at it, Murray has moved in the right direction since Wimbledon last year which is when Amelie took over. You can't look at one set today, which was a blowout as soon as those first three close games went to Nole, and say that proves that Andy hasn't made any progress in that time.

Better results by not facing Fedal at all but still getting beaten handily by Novak.

I think Mile said it best, that Amelie is doing her job and your boy just needs a psychiatrist! :snicker

Was he beaten handily today? Yeah he got bagelled in the last set but he was a break up twice in the opener before losing it on a tie break and he won the second. Similar story in the Australian final, to a lesser extent.

The Fedal argument is a whole other thing. Murray would beat Nadal on a hard court at the moment. Federer would probably beat Murray but we don't know because they haven't played this year.

However, you asked me to "clear this up", my comment about him moving in the right direction since Mauresmo joined him, I've done that by talking about his results. It wasn't just meetings with Fedalovic that damaged him last year, he was also beaten by Cilic (Rotterdam), Raonic (Indian Wells), Dimitrov (Acapulco & Wimbledon), Tsonga (Canada) and Ferrer (Shanghai). He went a long time of being incapable of beating top ten players, now he's beating the top tenners but not the top three. That is quite clearly a move in the right direction.

Perhaps he does need a psychiatrist, someone said the other day that he's working with one? But ultimately I think the problem is his to solve regardless of who coaches him.

 

[nehmeth]

Again... he could have achieved the same results without Amelie, because he's that good. (My opinion)

 

[TennisFanatic7]

Again... he could have achieved the same results without Amelie, because he's that good. (My opinion)

I would agree with you. The question is whether a different coach would have him beating his biggest rivals right now. I'm not sure. I still think that today he was closer to getting the win than he has been since Wimbledon 2013 regardless of the third set bagel.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Novak has served four bagels this year alone to top 10 players: two to Andy, one to Stan and one to Bird. All of them, except for the Bird one< coming in the final set.:clap

 

[nehmeth]

Again... he could have achieved the same results without Amelie, because he's that good. (My opinion)

I would agree with you. The question is whether a different coach would have him beating his biggest rivals right now. I'm not sure. I still think that today he was closer to getting the win than he has been since Wimbledon 2013 regardless of the third set bagel.

Just because I'm not a fan, and I'm happy every time Novak beats him... I think the guy has incredible talent and incredible touch. Ivan Lendl helped him with belief and because of his own success, I think Andy actually listened to him more. It would be nice for his fans and tennis if he could find his way back to that place.

 

[Riotbeard]

Again... he could have achieved the same results without Amelie, because he's that good. (My opinion)

I would agree with you. The question is whether a different coach would have him beating his biggest rivals right now. I'm not sure. I still think that today he was closer to getting the win than he has been since Wimbledon 2013 regardless of the third set bagel.

This is how I feel. I think if everybody were as good a coach as Lendl, we would have more slam winners. It really is up to Andy to put it back together now, and there are some positive signs.

 

[BratSrbin]

NOLE NOLE NOLE

I am cheering like this: No-1e! No-1e! No-1e!

 

[nehmeth]

Again... he could have achieved the same results without Amelie, because he's that good. (My opinion)

I would agree with you. The question is whether a different coach would have him beating his biggest rivals right now. I'm not sure. I still think that today he was closer to getting the win than he has been since Wimbledon 2013 regardless of the third set bagel.

This is how I feel. I think if everybody were as good a coach as Lendl, we would have more slam winners. It really is up to Andy to put it back together now, and there are some positive signs.

:blush:
Becker coming on board with Novak did not make me happy. The results were not immediately forthcoming and I was ready for him to go after Novak lost to the other Swiss fellow in Oz. A year (and two slams) later, I've seen Novak's net game improve exponentially... and it makes my heart pretty happy with the way he approaches the net - more like Ralf or Roger now, instead of Roddick.

Maybe Amelie can get Andy there... but he's not getting any younger and really doesn't have a two year window to wait and see.