Why Djokovic hasn't won the French Open and why he may never beat Nadal at RG.....

calitennis127

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I know that this is a happy day for Djokovic and his fans - and I assure you that I am thrilled with his victory - but, like Kieran, I was very disappointed with the match's quality at times, in particular with Djokovic's consistency. Many in the U.S. probably missed it, but I was one of the maniacs who was up at 3am and saw the entire thing. Before I crash, here are some thoughts on Djokovic in big matches. Djokovic should have won the French Open the last three years, and we saw today why he didn't, and why he likely won't beat Nadal if given another opportunity this year. It has nothing to do with actual tennis ability but his horrendous propensity for veering off into no-man's land any time he has a lead against the top group.

First of all - Murray outplayed Djokovic for most of the first set. What saved Djokovic in the end was his superior talent, but Djokovic's shakiness and lack of a coherent gameplan for consolidating lead positions very nearly cost him. Djokovic won the first game, Murray responded in kind, Djokovic fell down 0-40 in the third game but held, and then Djokovic raced out to a 4-1 lead in the set. I was hoping that he could win the set something like 6-2 or 6-3, but I knew the chances of that were about 10%. Of course, Djokovic's sloppiness combined with some great shots from Murray made Set 1 a slugfest in which a great defensive point by Djokovic and a very makeable volley miss by Murray at the end of the tiebreak saved Djokovic's bacon. The set never should have come to that, and Djokovic was allowed to survive. Murray had a much better gameplan than did Novak, and Murray played much more to his own potential than did Novak, whose ceiling is clearly higher than Murray's. Again, Djokovic's talent saved him in the end, but at Roland Garros against Nadal, playing those margins costs you, and Djokovic knows that better than anyone. Apparently, though, he hasn't done anything about it.

Moving on to the second set, Djokovic predictably experienced a lull at the start, before storming back to take a 4-3 lead. Blame the protesters charging the court if you wish, but Djokovic's level probably would have dropped anyway. He didn't play the 4-3 game anything like he played the 5-6 game to force a tiebreak. Djokovic again gave up the commanding position in the set. Then, at the start of set 3, Djokovic had to fall behind 2-0 before starting to play seriously. When he got the score to 4-3, Murray's energy sunk and Djokovic was still alive and kicking.

So what we can make of all this?

As I said during the match, Djokovic's level vacillates between superman and self-imploding space cadet on a game-by-game and sometimes point-by-point basis in these big matches. It appears that he must feel threatened or endangered to play his best ball, and then when he is in the lead, he does not merely let up in intensity, but his mind veers off to another galaxy. It is as if Djokovic has no plan for what he is going to do when he has given himself a commanding lead against a grinding counterpuncher like Murray or Nadal. He just contents himself with allowing them to break back and force a long, drawn-out set. He seems to just ride emotional waves to determine his strategy. When he's happy, he just allows himself to relax and be cautious. When he is ticked off, he starts being aggressive and thinking through the points more clearly.

And, finally, this is a recipe for disaster when playing Nadal at the French. Nadal always lingers and, like a leech, he just sucks the life out of you until you self-destruct. Then he starts hitting winners a little bit here and there, which causes his overzealous fan base to argue that he is the same caliber of shotmaker as Djokovic or Federer. The reality is that Djokovic has given away multiple French Open titles to Nadal because of his inability to consolidate leads, which very nearly cost him a match today against Murray that he should have won in much more straightforward fashion than he did.
 

Kieran

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Interesting post, Cali. I ran it through Google-translate for fun, and it came out like this:

"If Nadal is fit and hungry, he'll win the French."

In that case, I agree with you... :hug
 

brokenshoelace

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Djokovic will win Roland Garros at one point or another.
 

Denis

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Broken_Shoelace said:
Djokovic will win Roland Garros at one point or another.

Unfortunately I have come to realize it will depend to a very large extent on how long Nadal remains physically competitive.

It would require an exceptional performance by Novak to beat a fit Nadal at RG. He will need to put in a Rome 2011 performance in a best of 5 format, it's a tall task.
 

Kieran

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In fairness, somewhere along the line Rafa may just run into the same issues in Paris as he seemed to have at the rest of the clay season last year. Repetition and motivation may just get to him and he plays a stinker. I hope his motivation is strong but I'd prefer Rafa to set more store in the other majors, even if it was done at the expense of Roland Garros, though I'm not too sure how practical - or necessary - that would be...
 

brokenshoelace

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Nadal won't win RG forever. That's a given. The most likely person to capitalize, whether by actually beating Nadal or otherwise, is Djokovic. I firmly believe he'll win it in the not too distant future.

I also don't worry about motivation with Nadal, at least not yet, but I do worry about his health.
 

herios

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I am hoping at this year's RG, Nadal will show up in pink yet again:blush:
 

shawnbm

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Novak will win in Paris someday, that is my hunch. As Federer was during Nadal's first four or five French titles, Nole is clearly the second best clay court player after Rafa. I'd say one of the next two he takes, perhaps even doing it like Roger and capitalizing after Nadal gets knocked out early.
 

herios

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Broken_Shoelace said:
Nadal won't win RG forever. That's a given. The most likely person to capitalize, whether by actually beating Nadal or otherwise, is Djokovic. I firmly believe he'll win it in the not too distant future.

I also don't worry about motivation with Nadal, at least not yet, but I do worry about his health.

I understand you. I have been predicting in the past (wrongly), that Nadal will be done by the age 28.You made fun of me, for a good reason. My predictions were wishful thinking as a non-fan.
But, last year, his clay season was the weaker since 2005 (defeats by Almagro, Ferrer and an escape against Nishikori). If Nadal is not improving on his clay season performance this year vs. 2014, he then is indeed on the decline path.
We will find out a lot about his state comes this spring.
 

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calitennis127 said:
I know that this is a happy day for Djokovic and his fans - and I assure you that I am thrilled with his victory - but, like Kieran, I was very disappointed with the match's quality at times, in particular with Djokovic's consistency. Many in the U.S. probably missed it, but I was one of the maniacs who was up at 3am and saw the entire thing. Before I crash, here are some thoughts on Djokovic in big matches. Djokovic should have won the French Open the last three years, and we saw today why he didn't, and why he likely won't beat Nadal if given another opportunity this year. It has nothing to do with actual tennis ability but his horrendous propensity for veering off into no-man's land any time he has a lead against the top group.

First of all - Murray outplayed Djokovic for most of the first set. What saved Djokovic in the end was his superior talent, but Djokovic's shakiness and lack of a coherent gameplan for consolidating lead positions very nearly cost him. Djokovic won the first game, Murray responded in kind, Djokovic fell down 0-40 in the third game but held, and then Djokovic raced out to a 4-1 lead in the set. I was hoping that he could win the set something like 6-2 or 6-3, but I knew the chances of that were about 10%. Of course, Djokovic's sloppiness combined with some great shots from Murray made Set 1 a slugfest in which a great defensive point by Djokovic and a very makeable volley miss by Murray at the end of the tiebreak saved Djokovic's bacon. The set never should have come to that, and Djokovic was allowed to survive. Murray had a much better gameplan than did Novak, and Murray played much more to his own potential than did Novak, whose ceiling is clearly higher than Murray's. Again, Djokovic's talent saved him in the end, but at Roland Garros against Nadal, playing those margins costs you, and Djokovic knows that better than anyone. Apparently, though, he hasn't done anything about it.

Moving on to the second set, Djokovic predictably experienced a lull at the start, before storming back to take a 4-3 lead. Blame the protesters charging the court if you wish, but Djokovic's level probably would have dropped anyway. He didn't play the 4-3 game anything like he played the 5-6 game to force a tiebreak. Djokovic again gave up the commanding position in the set. Then, at the start of set 3, Djokovic had to fall behind 2-0 before starting to play seriously. When he got the score to 4-3, Murray's energy sunk and Djokovic was still alive and kicking.

So what we can make of all this?

As I said during the match, Djokovic's level vacillates between superman and self-imploding space cadet on a game-by-game and sometimes point-by-point basis in these big matches. It appears that he must feel threatened or endangered to play his best ball, and then when he is in the lead, he does not merely let up in intensity, but his mind veers off to another galaxy. It is as if Djokovic has no plan for what he is going to do when he has given himself a commanding lead against a grinding counterpuncher like Murray or Nadal. He just contents himself with allowing them to break back and force a long, drawn-out set. He seems to just ride emotional waves to determine his strategy. When he's happy, he just allows himself to relax and be cautious. When he is ticked off, he starts being aggressive and thinking through the points more clearly.

And, finally, this is a recipe for disaster when playing Nadal at the French. Nadal always lingers and, like a leech, he just sucks the life out of you until you self-destruct. Then he starts hitting winners a little bit here and there, which causes his overzealous fan base to argue that he is the same caliber of shotmaker as Djokovic or Federer. The reality is that Djokovic has given away multiple French Open titles to Nadal because of his inability to consolidate leads, which very nearly cost him a match today against Murray that he should have won in much more straightforward fashion than he did.

I am not sure what match you watched.

Murray's consistency can be an impentrable wall at times, and it forces players to do things they would not normally do.

Novak won today because he is superior mentally, and for the simple reason that MURRAY WILL NOT COME FORWARD. EVER.
 

herios

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shawnbm said:
Novak will win in Paris someday, that is my hunch. As Federer was during Nadal's first four or five French titles, Nole is clearly the second best clay court player after Rafa. I'd say one of the next two he takes, perhaps even doing it like Roger and capitalizing after Nadal gets knocked out early.

If Novak wants to win RG, his best chances are in the next 2.
 

Kieran

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No man has ever won a major six times in a row... :popcorn
 

rafanoy1992

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herios said:
shawnbm said:
Novak will win in Paris someday, that is my hunch. As Federer was during Nadal's first four or five French titles, Nole is clearly the second best clay court player after Rafa. I'd say one of the next two he takes, perhaps even doing it like Roger and capitalizing after Nadal gets knocked out early.

If Novak wants to win RG, his best chances are in the next 2.

I absolutely agree, herios.

If Djokovic wants to win RG, then this year and 2016 will be his best chance to do it. People gotta remember that Djokovic is turning 28 this May so at some point physically or emotionally he will start to get "tired" as you can say. In addition, at some point, some unknown player might suddenly beat one of the top guys regularly. So Djokovic needs to capitalize these next two years or else he might never win RG.
 

rafanoy1992

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Kieran said:
No man has ever won a major six times in a row... :popcorn

Well my friend, this year might be the year where we see history no? ;)

Also, we have to blame Ralph and Delpo for not able to see a player win a major six times in a row. :snicker
 

herios

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rafanoy1992 said:
herios said:
shawnbm said:
Novak will win in Paris someday, that is my hunch. As Federer was during Nadal's first four or five French titles, Nole is clearly the second best clay court player after Rafa. I'd say one of the next two he takes, perhaps even doing it like Roger and capitalizing after Nadal gets knocked out early.

If Novak wants to win RG, his best chances are in the next 2.

I absolutely agree, herios.

If Djokovic wants to win RG, then this year and 2016 will be his best chance to do it. People gotta remember that Djokovic is turning 28 this May so at some point physically or emotionally he will start to get "tired" as you can say. In addition, at some point, some unknown player might suddenly beat one of the top guys regularly. So Djokovic needs to capitalize these next two years or else he might never win RG.

Exactly, no matter how great they are, after they turn 30, to win a slam it is the exception, not the rule. Fed has won only one!
 

nehmeth

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Luxilon Borg said:
MURRAY WILL NOT COME FORWARD. EVER.

:puzzled :huh: :s

Murray was 23 points for 33 times at net. A very solid 70%
Novak was 26 points for 37 times at net.

http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/scores/stats/day19/1701ms.html
 

rafanoy1992

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herios said:
rafanoy1992 said:
herios said:
If Novak wants to win RG, his best chances are in the next 2.

I absolutely agree, herios.

If Djokovic wants to win RG, then this year and 2016 will be his best chance to do it. People gotta remember that Djokovic is turning 28 this May so at some point physically or emotionally he will start to get "tired" as you can say. In addition, at some point, some unknown player might suddenly beat one of the top guys regularly. So Djokovic needs to capitalize these next two years or else he might never win RG.

Exactly, no matter how great they are, after they turn 30, to win a slam it is the exception, not the rule. Fed has won only one!

That's why I don't buy that Djokovic will catch Nadal or Nadal will break Federer's record. In sports, there comes a time where physically you just can't compete at a high level every single day. In Tennis, that number is the age 30. When male tennis players turned 30 years old, it is just a different animal compared to when he was 25 years old.
 

Luxilon Borg

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nehmeth said:
Luxilon Borg said:
MURRAY WILL NOT COME FORWARD. EVER.

:puzzled :huh: :s

Murray was 23 points for 33 times at net. A very solid 70%
Novak was 26 points for 37 times at net.

http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/scores/stats/day19/1701ms.html

Novak made the match more painful because he became passive at times.

33 times at net over three and a half hours? It should be 33 times a set.
 

brokenshoelace

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Luxilon Borg said:
nehmeth said:
Luxilon Borg said:
MURRAY WILL NOT COME FORWARD. EVER.

:puzzled :huh: :s

Murray was 23 points for 33 times at net. A very solid 70%
Novak was 26 points for 37 times at net.

http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/scores/stats/day19/1701ms.html

Novak made the match more painful because he became passive at times.

33 times at net over three and a half hours? It should be 33 times a set.

No it shouldn't. He was playing Novak Djokovic. If he attacked the net anywhere near that many times per set, the scoreline would have been 6-2 6-2 6-2.

Murray is a very good volleyer, for the record.
 

Luxilon Borg

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Broken_Shoelace said:
Luxilon Borg said:
nehmeth said:
:puzzled :huh: :s

Murray was 23 points for 33 times at net. A very solid 70%
Novak was 26 points for 37 times at net.

http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/scores/stats/day19/1701ms.html

Novak made the match more painful because he became passive at times.

33 times at net over three and a half hours? It should be 33 times a set.

No it shouldn't. He was playing Novak Djokovic. If he attacked the net anywhere near that many times per set, the scoreline would have been 6-2 6-2 6-2.

Murray is a very good volleyer, for the record.


As opposed to losing three sets 7-6. 6-3, 6-0 pulling Novak wide of the doubles alley 50 times and standing there waiting to hit another groundie?