NBA (whenever)...

[Federberg]

Imagine if the Sixers kept Champagnie and McCain.

exactly! And as we all know this isn't even the worst decision they've made. That will remain the Tatum draft surely

 

[Federberg]

re: the OKC and Giannis thing. I think y'all are missing one piece of it.. why on earth would Giannis want to do that? That has KD to the Warriors spice in it. Nah...

 

[DarthFed]

re: the OKC and Giannis thing. I think y'all are missing one piece of it.. why on earth would Giannis want to do that? That has KD to the Warriors spice in it. Nah...

I think it’s quite a bit different from KD to Warriors since it’d be a trade and Giannis didn’t just get eliminated by the Thunder. From Giannis’s perspective he’d remain in a small market and have the chance to compete for rings for many years. And finally, the Bucks shouldn’t give Giannis much of a say aside from not doing him dirty by trading him to a scrub squad like the Wizards.

Also, while KD is looked at a certain way for going to GSW it can’t be denied that it did wonders for his legacy. Giannis right now has been stagnant for awhile and needs to accomplish more if he is going to be remembered as an all-time great.

 

[the AntiPusher]

this NBA Draft is gonna very interesting especially for the Bulls.. Yes they were complete idiots for letting Ayo go for ham sandwich but if the can land either Wilson from NC or the Acuff Jr. (aka DRose 2.0 . I love Keaton Wagler but I dont think he is a player you can build a franchise around

 

[Murat B.]

Shots fired! Lol

I am done with that. Only time will tell, like ASIA sang decades ago.

 

[Federberg]

I think it’s quite a bit different from KD to Warriors since it’d be a trade and Giannis didn’t just get eliminated by the Thunder. From Giannis’s perspective he’d remain in a small market and have the chance to compete for rings for many years. And finally, the Bucks shouldn’t give Giannis much of a say aside from not doing him dirty by trading him to a scrub squad like the Wizards.

Also, while KD is looked at a certain way for going to GSW it can’t be denied that it did wonders for his legacy. Giannis right now has been stagnant for awhile and needs to accomplish more if he is going to be remembered as an all-time great.

obviously it's not exactly the same. But.. MVP level guy going to a championship winning team. It's not a good look. I rather doubt it's something Freak would want anyway. If it's done without his sanction then that's obviously different, no one will blame him for that

 

[Federberg]

so glad we don't have to see them again this playoffs...

 

[brokenshoelace]

The OKC coverage is just an amazing display of mass psychosis. It's exactly like politics, where people who barely pay attention get their news from tiktok clips, carefully crafted social media engagement baits, and hot take shows. And once you push back, be prepared for some world class mental gymnastics. Meanwhile, the same people who don't watch the games are shaping narratives. Bill Simmons didn't know the difference between JWill and J-Dub (no, seriously), Nick Wright couldn't explain why OKC is 9th in free throws taken per game.

The same people complaining are the ones lamenting lack of defense, physicality, mid range, leadership, team spirit, not joining superteams, building through the draft, etc... ALL of which OKC does literally better than anyone.

Meanwhile, Wemby and the Spurs getting praise for "ethical" hoops despite plays like this:



















I have no problem with anything the Spurs did which is why I wasn't complaining one bit, just highlighting the double standards, and how easy it is to post videos to supposedly highlight a point.

Meanwhile, this is prime Dwayne Wade:



The problem is much of the discourse is tailored towards people who started watching the NBA in the last decade at the most and everything else they've consumed about the history of the game is from Youtube videos and hot take shows, so everything they're seeing now is kind of new so it's very hard for them to contextualize historically.

It's kind of like the Lebron hate. Just say you don't like the guy and that's perfectly fine. Everything else is arbitrary bullshit from people who barely even watched him in his prime and had their views shaped by Skip Bayless.

 

[Federberg]

The OKC coverage is just an amazing display of mass psychosis. It's exactly like politics, where people who barely pay attention get their news from tiktok clips, carefully crafted social media engagement baits, and hot take shows. And once you push back, be prepared for some world class mental gymnastics. Meanwhile, the same people who don't watch the games are shaping narratives. Bill Simmons didn't know the difference between JWill and J-Dub (no, seriously), Nick Wright couldn't explain why OKC is 9th in free throws taken per game.

The same people complaining are the ones lamenting lack of defense, physicality, mid range, leadership, team spirit, not joining superteams, building through the draft, etc... ALL of which OKC does literally better than anyone.

Meanwhile, Wemby and the Spurs getting praise for "ethical" hoops despite plays like this:



















I have no problem with anything the Spurs did which is why I wasn't complaining one bit, just highlighting the double standards, and how easy it is to post videos to supposedly highlight a point.

Meanwhile, this is prime Dwayne Wade:



The problem is much of the discourse is tailored towards people who started watching the NBA in the last decade at the most and everything else they've consumed about the history of the game is from Youtube videos and hot take shows, so everything they're seeing now is kind of new so it's very hard for them to contextualize historically.

It's kind of like the Lebron hate. Just say you don't like the guy and that's perfectly fine. Everything else is arbitrary bullshit from people who barely even watched him in his prime and had their views shaped by Skip Bayless.

lol! There you go again!
First video, the guy clearly tangles his legs with Wemby AND pushes him.

Second collection of videos 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. They did it to each other! What's your point. No one claims the Spurs are saints. They're not! They're physical.

Far too many videos to be honest, I've repeated it many times, people would have less of an issue with OKC if SGA wasn't foul grifting on one side and Dort and Caruso weren't getting away with stuff on the other side. It's telling that SGA's numbers declined substantially in a play off environment. I don't think a single person here didn't praise SGA for his performance in game 7. Outside of the side flop for 3 fouls. It's very clear that the global (and its global) disdain for his tactics is getting to him. Otherwise why would he threaten to sue Underdog? SGA is a great player, great! He doesn't need to do it. But he does because he's been allowed to get away with it. He's not the first to foul grift. You showed Dwayne Wade and he was certainly taking advantage, but I'm sorry he's not in SGA's territory. You would have made a better case with Harden to be honest. Most of those calls he got, he induced the defence into positional error and got the fouls. SGA falls down a ridiculous amount on zero contact! He's taken it to an extreme. He wouldn't do well with FIBA rules. If he cleans that nonsense up, he might not get anymore MVPs but he would be respected. Applauded for being an absolute mid-range terror. So no... it's not an anti-OKC bias for no reason.

I was horrified at Adam Silver's response to the whole flopping debate. It needs to be cleaned up. No one is saying that SGA is the only one, he's just the best at it. And he takes it too far. It is NOT enjoyable to watch, the league would be better off without it. You know it, I know it. I posted a clip of Jaylen Brown explaining the difference between foul grifting and flopping. Watch it. He nails it. No one wants to watch that. And it's infuriating when one team seems to specialise in these dark arts and gets the benefit from the referees, while that same team is hacking the opposition star players at the SAME time! I'm a Golden State Warriors fan. Some of the stuff that gets done to Steph and gets NOTHING. Nothing! And SGA is flopping with no contact and getting calls. Make it make sense! No mate... miss me with that

 

[brokenshoelace]

And again, the mental gymnastics are out in full effect. It's ridiculous that you think SGA is "not respected" when every player has nothing but praise for him and it's the hot take artists/social media engagement farmers who criticize him.

Saying Wade "wasn't in SGA's territory" re: foul baiting is just a statement. Backed up by zero facts. Unless someone watched Wade in his prime, they wouldn't understand.

As for not doing well in FIBA rules, fortunately we actually have data on that, rather than a baseless theory. He was second in scoring behind Giannis at the 2024 Olympics, with 21 points on 55% shooting. Meanwhile, in the 2023 FIBA World Cup, he averaged 24.5 points on 54% shooting, leading Canada to their best ever result (third place finish). Obviously there's going to be a drop off compared to his NBA averages given the shorter quarters, bigger rotations, fewer minutes per game, the game being less offense centric, etc.. which is why everyone's numbers drop under FIBA rules. But Shai was absolutely fantastic so I'm not sure where your theory is coming from other than again, consuming way too much social media content to formulate your opinion about a player you watch a few times per year.

And anyone who watched how the Lakers and especially the Spurs guarded Shai and didn't think that was the main reason for the drop off in his numbers doesn't fully understand what they're watching. Again, no guard in history has been guarded with that level of attention, and I previously explained again, that the defense implemented against him was literally illegal in the older days. I don't even think he had a great series against the Spurs on the whole to be clear.

But with all that out of the way, I don't think you're grasping what I'm getting at. The coverage re: OKC and Shai has been borderline malicious. From the broadcast to social media, and many are saying as much. It's not whether the criticism makes valid points or not.

 

[Federberg]

And again, the mental gymnastics are out in full effect. It's ridiculous that you think SGA is "not respected" when every player has nothing but praise for him and it's the hot take artists/social media engagement farmers who criticize him.

Saying Wade "wasn't in SGA's territory" re: foul baiting is just a statement. Backed up by zero facts. Unless someone watched Wade in his prime, they wouldn't understand.

As for not doing well in FIBA rules, fortunately we actually have data on that, rather than a baseless theory. He was second in scoring behind Giannis at the 2024 Olympics, with 21 points on 55% shooting. Meanwhile, in the 2023 FIBA World Cup, he averaged 24.5 points on 54% shooting, leading Canada to their best ever result (third place finish). Obviously there's going to be a drop off compared to his NBA averages given the shorter quarters, bigger rotations, fewer minutes per game, the game being less offense centric, etc.. which is why everyone's numbers drop under FIBA rules. But Shai was absolutely fantastic so I'm not sure where your theory is coming from other than again, consuming way too much social media content to formulate your opinion about a player you watch a few times per year.

And anyone who watched how the Lakers and especially the Spurs guarded Shai and didn't think that was the main reason for the drop off in his numbers doesn't fully understand what they're watching. Again, no guard in history has been guarded with that level of attention, and I previously explained again, that the defense implemented against him was literally illegal in the older days. I don't even think he had a great series against the Spurs on the whole to be clear.

But with all that out of the way, I don't think you're grasping what I'm getting at. The coverage re: OKC and Shai has been borderline malicious. From the broadcast to social media, and many are saying as much. It's not whether the criticism makes valid points or not.

I'll grant you this, re: FIBA I re-read what I wrote. In my head I thought I had said that he wouldn't do as well with FIBA. My point being that a lot of the grift is just not feasible, and certainly not the flopping. But I'm man enough to accept that's not what I wrote That's not a statement about his ability, rather the rules and spirit of play. He is fully capable of maintaining MVP level because he really is that. The problem is the way he goes about his business.

You keep talking about "those who watched", and people who are actually knowledgeable. This is your conceit. In any sport you tend to consider yourself an insider and more informed than others. I'm not sure if you're aware how childishly arrogant that comes across? Not sure if you care to be honest. But anyway.. I've been watching basketball for decades. I have my opinion, and you have yours. Regarding Wade, he was an expert foul baiter, he even flopped sometimes. But mate... SGA has taken flopping to another level. So much so it almost makes us (and I say us, because I was chatting to a fellow basketball fan a few days ago) reminisce about the near innocence of James Harden!

But I'll repeat it one more time for you. The whole thing would be more palatable if it was just SGA. But it's not. It's OKC. There's the flopping on the offence, and you have Dort doing his diving flop getting around screens. That's the problem. There's flopping on BOTH sides. You're afraid to challenge SGA on offence, and your own offence is often stymied by the OKC defenders flopping to trick offensive fouls. It's both! That point seems to completely escape you. I'm just trying to explain to you why the hate is specific and different. You can argue all you want, but the hate is real, and it's got nothing to do with hot takes or engagement farming. Tell yourself that if you want, but it's just cope

 

[brokenshoelace]

I'll grant you this, re: FIBA I re-read what I wrote. In my head I thought I had said that he wouldn't do as well with FIBA. My point being that a lot of the grift is just not feasible, and certainly not the flopping. But I'm man enough to accept that's not what I wrote That's not a statement about his ability, rather the rules and spirit of play. He is fully capable of maintaining MVP level because he really is that. The problem is the way he goes about his business.

You keep talking about "those who watched", and people who are actually knowledgeable. This is your conceit. In any sport you tend to consider yourself an insider and more informed than others. I'm not sure if you're aware how childishly arrogant that comes across? Not sure if you care to be honest. But anyway.. I've been watching basketball for decades. I have my opinion, and you have yours. Regarding Wade, he was an expert foul baiter, he even flopped sometimes. But mate... SGA has taken flopping to another level. So much so it almost makes us (and I say us, because I was chatting to a fellow basketball fan a few days ago) reminisce about the near innocence of James Harden!

But I'll repeat it one more time for you. The whole thing would be more palatable if it was just SGA. But it's not. It's OKC. There's the flopping on the offence, and you have Dort doing his diving flop getting around screens. That's the problem. There's flopping on BOTH sides. You're afraid to challenge SGA on offence, and your own offence is often stymied by the OKC defenders flopping to trick offensive fouls. It's both! That point seems to completely escape you. I'm just trying to explain to you why the hate is specific and different. You can argue all you want, but the hate is real, and it's got nothing to do with hot takes or engagement farming. Tell yourself that if you want, but it's just cope
Click to expand...

Wade infamously averaged 16 free throws per game in the 2006 finals. SIXTEEN. They would call ICE on Shai if he got anywhere near that number. He attempted 73 free throws in the final 4 games alone. You guys have no idea what you're talking about.

I keep talking about "those who watched" because I thought it's pretty clear from your postings that you're a relatively new-ish basketball fan. But no, I don't consider myself to be an "insider" whatever the fuck that means. But it's very obvious when someone more or less a casual by what they focus on, where they get their takes from, and the depth (or lack thereof) they're able to discuss the game. Want us to revisit the Messi debate we had in 2018 and see who was right about that, and whose arguments were short sighted and shallow?

If not, I can leave you with the below instead, although I already dread the gaslighting mental gymnastics emoji filled damage control reply already... There's nothing wrong with not having followed a sport for decades, but posting takes like an authority (especially historical ones pertaining to an all time great's standing when you missed most of his prime is laughable, especially when it's very clear how you consume your basketball knowledge).

Maybe you were hacked. Apologies for my "childish and arrogant" postings. Maybe if I lied about how much I followed a certain sport, it would be less childish.

 

[Federberg]

Wade infamously averaged 16 free throws per game in the 2006 finals. SIXTEEN. They would call ICE on Shai if he got anywhere near that number. He attempted 73 free throws in the final 4 games alone. You guys have no idea what you're talking about.

I keep talking about "those who watched" because I thought it's pretty clear from your postings that you're a relatively new-ish basketball fan. But no, I don't consider myself to be an "insider" whatever the fuck that means. But it's very obvious when someone more or less a casual by what they focus on, where they get their takes from, and the depth (or lack thereof) they're able to discuss the game. Want us to revisit the Messi debate we had in 2018 and see who was right about that, and whose arguments were short sighted and shallow?

If not, I can leave you with the below instead, although I already dread the gaslighting mental gymnastics emoji filled damage control reply already... There's nothing wrong with not having followed a sport for decades, but posting takes like an authority (especially historical ones pertaining to an all time great's standing when you missed most of his prime is laughable, especially when it's very clear how you consume your basketball knowledge).

Maybe you were hacked. Apologies for my "childish and arrogant" postings. Maybe if I lied about how much I followed a certain sport, it would be less childish.

View attachment 10813


View attachment 10814

lol! Not hacked. I've played down my level of interest in many things over the years. And that was particularly the case when I occasionally ventured outside of the tennis threads, the constant debates about tennis were enough for me, I didn't need it for other sports! I learned that tactic from a rather irritating broker who I know on good authority got a first at Cambridge, and was far more clever than he liked to admit. If I wasn't aware of this I would have been caught in his games, which are actually rather effective. He was able to get people to make arguments that they would have tightened up considerably if they recognised him as informed. I believe I even did that with you regarding football. I've done it with others about boxing, and financial markets. Sometimes I just want to hear what people think, without the fight. But I'm seriously impressed that you went digging so deep! Here's the thing. Even if that were true, your inability to face up and just argue a point without trying to claim some level of authority just exposes your deep insecurities.

I'll tell you a story, this was.. what over 20 years ago? During the Blair Labour government? I had what I thought was just a simple debate with an associate. He claimed Gordon Brown was the greatest Chancellor (like an American Treasury Secretary) in his life time. I disagreed... strongly! He immediately gets offended and tells me that he had a Bachelors of Economics at a top university. I was puzzled, and asked why he told me that. Because he says, he was more qualified to determine the effectiveness of a Chancellor's economic policies than me. Err... ok! Let's ignore the fact that I was a Currency Trader who actually made money based on my understanding of how markets would react to said economic policies! Anyway needless to say... 10 years later, I"m at a dinner party, and the same dude is there. Someone else comments about how colossally stupid Gordon Brown was with his economic policies and worst of all his selling of the entire stock of Britains gold reserves now looked utterly moronic. That same dude.. pipes up and agrees that Gordon Brown was a terrible Chancellor! You can be qualified, even educated about something and still be completely stupid.

My point? Faux expertise, and knowledge is the currency often used by immature people who can't abide a dissenting opinion. That's what all this really is you know? The fact that just as many if not more ex pro basketball players share my concerns isn't even really worth bringing up to bolster my view. Just use your eyes and be honest FFS! I'm a Warriors fan, but it doesn't blind me to the fact that some of the stuff Draymond does is asinine.

Fwiw... before I settled on the Warriors, I actually followed the Trail Blazers as far back as the mid to late 80s, I almost decided to move to the States for University but ended up staying in England. But Steph Curry won me over in the Mark Jackson years.

So.. mate... you can casually fuck off

 

[Murat B.]

OK, how is this series going to go? When was the last time Knicks played ? Can they be sharp off the bat? How are they defending Wemby? More importantly , how are they attacking Spurs in a way that they do not meet Wemby at the basket every time they drive ? Will Spurs defend Brunson the way they defended SGA, make life miserable for him?
Let's get going.

 

[Murat B.]

Knicks played a very smart game and Brunson showed up when needed. 12 wins in a row for NY. Well done. Just one turn over in the second half. That's how you play on the road. 15 rebounds from Hart was huge.
Wemby will get better, sky is the limit for the guy. Right now though, he has to work on being a better player one on one. He looks so sloppy when he is trying to create for himself. With his size, he has to be an amazing post up player. He isn't. Yet.

 

[brokenshoelace]

lol! Not hacked. I've played down my level of interest in many things over the years. And that was particularly the case when I occasionally ventured outside of the tennis threads, the constant debates about tennis were enough for me, I didn't need it for other sports! I learned that tactic from a rather irritating broker who I know on good authority got a first at Cambridge, and was far more clever than he liked to admit. If I wasn't aware of this I would have been caught in his games, which are actually rather effective. He was able to get people to make arguments that they would have tightened up considerably if they recognised him as informed. I believe I even did that with you regarding football. I've done it with others about boxing, and financial markets. Sometimes I just want to hear what people think, without the fight. But I'm seriously impressed that you went digging so deep! Here's the thing. Even if that were true, your inability to face up and just argue a point without trying to claim some level of authority just exposes your deep insecurities.

I'll tell you a story, this was.. what over 20 years ago? During the Blair Labour government? I had what I thought was just a simple debate with an associate. He claimed Gordon Brown was the greatest Chancellor (like an American Treasury Secretary) in his life time. I disagreed... strongly! He immediately gets offended and tells me that he had a Bachelors of Economics at a top university. I was puzzled, and asked why he told me that. Because he says, he was more qualified to determine the effectiveness of a Chancellor's economic policies than me. Err... ok! Let's ignore the fact that I was a Currency Trader who actually made money based on my understanding of how markets would react to said economic policies! Anyway needless to say... 10 years later, I"m at a dinner party, and the same dude is there. Someone else comments about how colossally stupid Gordon Brown was with his economic policies and worst of all his selling of the entire stock of Britains gold reserves now looked utterly moronic. That same dude.. pipes up and agrees that Gordon Brown was a terrible Chancellor! You can be qualified, even educated about something and still be completely stupid.

My point? Faux expertise, and knowledge is the currency often used by immature people who can't abide a dissenting opinion. That's what all this really is you know? The fact that just as many if not more ex pro basketball players share my concerns isn't even really worth bringing up to bolster my view. Just use your eyes and be honest FFS! I'm a Warriors fan, but it doesn't blind me to the fact that some of the stuff Draymond does is asinine.

Fwiw... before I settled on the Warriors, I actually followed the Trail Blazers as far back as the mid to late 80s, I almost decided to move to the States for University but ended up staying in England. But Steph Curry won me over in the Mark Jackson years.

So.. mate... you can casually fuck off

Fascinating...

"although I already dread the gaslighting mental gymnastics emoji filled damage control reply already." And yet I wasn't prepared for how true this would prove to be.

 

[Federberg]

Knicks played a very smart game and Brunson showed up when needed. 12 wins in a row for NY. Well done. Just one turn over in the second half. That's how you play on the road. 15 rebounds from Hart was huge.
Wemby will get better, sky is the limit for the guy. Right now though, he has to work on being a better player one on one. He looks so sloppy when he is trying to create for himself. With his size, he has to be an amazing post up player. He isn't. Yet.

they really did. I never really felt they were in any difficulties trailing. Wemby was poor. I felt Robinson and KAT denied him his preferred positioning. Still the Spurs might have held on but for the inexplicable decision to get the ball in Wemby's hands more. Dribbling the ball up in the dying minutes made no sense to me, but Wemby taking so many shots from deep kind of exposed he was out of ideas. So impressed with both KAT and Brunson. And Harper! Harper should have been given the ball to attack more. Can't believe this is a rookie we're watching

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

People forget that Scottie should have won in 2000 with Portland if the NBA didn't rig the Western Conference Finals. They couldn't let Portland win the WCF and Finals because that would have hurt Jordan's GOAT argument.

A shame that the NBA rigged the 2000 and 2002 Western Conference Finals. Portland and Sacramento were robbed of a title. LA really should have only had one ring in the Kobe/Shaq era.

Had the 2000 and 2002 WCFs been officiated fairly, Kobe has no GOAT argument, and Tim Duncan is easily the best player in his era (between Jordan and LeBron).

 

[DarthFed]

People forget that Scottie should have won in 2000 with Portland if the NBA didn't rig the Western Conference Finals. They couldn't let Portland win the WCF and Finals because that would have hurt Jordan's GOAT argument.

A shame that the NBA rigged the 2000 and 2002 Western Conference Finals. Portland and Sacramento were robbed of a title. LA really should have only had one ring in the Kobe/Shaq era.

Had the 2000 and 2002 WCFs been officiated fairly, Kobe has no GOAT argument, and Tim Duncan is easily the best player in his era (between Jordan and LeBron).

Well this kind of came out of left field. I hear you about the Kings series, that was the clearest example of the NBA rigging a series that we’ve seen with 2001 Bucks - 76ers up there as well. Game 6 in particular of Kings-Lakers may be the worst officiated game in any sport, talk about highway robbery! I honestly don’t remember 2000 being that bad, it certainly is not 2002 or we’d still be hearing about it.

As for not letting Pippen win in 2000…well he again was the 2nd best player on his own team next to Sheed, so how bad would it have actually made MJ look if he won one that year? Also, the idea that the NBA in 2000 would need to protect MJ’s legacy is crazy. So I don’t see the NBA going out of its way to make sure Pippen loses. They may have had a stake in LA winning since Shaq-Kobe was already a phenomenal duo, but I don’t see a motivation to screw Scottie.

The best player of post-Jordan era between Duncan, Kobe and Shaq is an interesting one. I do have Duncan narrowly ahead of the other two.

 

[Federberg]

what adjustments should SAS make in game 2? I felt Fox got lost in the half court defence, and Wemby needs to play with more force. Can't have Josh Hart out rebounding him. I think Harper needs to have the ball in his hands a bit more on offence, and he was also more effective than Fox on defence too. Not saying Fox should be relegated to the bench, but they need to somehow get him more involved? Not sure how they help Wemby, Kornet was invisible. Wemby just needs to be the guy he, and we all think he is...