NBA (whenever)...

[Murat B.]

Great defenders are more and more rare these days and Green is still valuable due to that. And of course he and Steph are the last guys standing from their glory days and that is likely valuable for Steph too at this point. If they get rid of Green who knows how motivated Steph is to play a bunch more seasons.

I feel like GSW have valued their young guys too much. May as well go all in and accept that they will need a full rebuild in a couple years vs having mid level young dudes that will get them 30-35 wins at best once the geriatrics are gone.

Talking about great defenders...There was only one player this year who had over 100 blocks and 100 steals and who was tasked with defending the best player on the other team regardless of position every single night (he also had over 400 assists , as a side note, which also makes him unique) and he did not even make it to the top 3 finalist list for Defensive Player of the Year. People want to be recognized when they do something good and Scottie Barnes was screwed. Is it the Canada factor? I don't know but if Webmy is DPOY, Scottie should have been a close second. Half the blocks Wemby had , his feet did not even leave the floor !

 

[DarthFed]

This series should remove all doubt on the GOAT argument. LeBron is the greatest ever. He is winning, at age 41, with players like Luke Kennard and Marcus Smart, who have never made an all-start team. Not to mention, making them look like prime time playoff performers.

LeBron makes his teammates better. KD does not. That should be obvious to anyone watching this series. Just look at what happened in Brooklyn. He couldn't win Kyrie, Harden, and Ben Simmons, and he threw them under the bus. Swap KD for LeBron on those early 2020s Brooklyn Nets teams, and they are a dynasty. (After watching Kennard and Smart flourish, I really wish Simmons would have played with LeBron. Simmons has way more talent than them, and if LeBron was able to get that out of Kennard and Smart, I'm pretty sure LeBron would have maximized the strengths of Simmons, and made him one of top defensive players in NBA history.)

I’m guessing you are under the age of 30 if you have LeBron over MJ as GOAT. And I am far from a LeBron hater but I think that ship sailed awhile ago. And I’m not surprised LeBron is still playing like this…if he really wants to he could play until he’s 50 with the last 4 or 5 years as a 6th man. But winning the first round wouldnt add anything to his resume, at this point it’d take winning the title and being a big reason why.

Greatness to me is largely about dominance and how much better you are than your peers. Zach Lowe in an article many years ago termed it the inevitability of Michael Jordan, and I think that stated it perfectly.

While I obviously agree about Bron over KD, Ben Simmons clearly had mental issues which quickly derailed his career. I don’t think LeBron or anyone would have fixed that.

 

[Federberg]

Where the hell is Simmons and what the hell is he doing? Haven't heard the name in a long time.

I think he's out of the league. No one was going to offer him the type of money he wanted, and rightly so

 

[Federberg]

I’m guessing you are under the age of 30 if you have LeBron over MJ as GOAT. And I am far from a LeBron hater but I think that ship sailed awhile ago. And I’m not surprised LeBron is still playing like this…if he really wants to he could play until he’s 50 with the last 4 or 5 years as a 6th man. But winning the first round wouldnt add anything to his resume, at this point it’d take winning the title and being a big reason why.

Greatness to me is largely about dominance and how much better you are than your peers. Zach Lowe in an article many years ago termed it the inevitability of Michael Jordan, and I think that stated it perfectly.

While I obviously agree about Bron over KD, Ben Simmons clearly had mental issues which quickly derailed his career. I don’t think LeBron or anyone would have fixed that.

thank goodness! LeBron is not a goat of any kind. I can't remember who said it... but it went something like this... LeBron has had the best career of any player in NBA history. That's not the same as being the greatest. He's not even the greatest in his own era, but I won't go there. @DarthFed knows my feelings on this.

But for sure, LeBron is superior to KD. Frankly of the guys who dominated the 2010s, I would say that LeBron (3.5), Steph (4) and one could argue Kahwi (2) clear KD.

 

[DarthFed]

thank goodness! LeBron is not a goat of any kind. I can't remember who said it... but it went something like this... LeBron has had the best career of any player in NBA history. That's not the same as being the greatest. He's not even the greatest in his own era, but I won't go there. @DarthFed knows my feelings on this.

But for sure, LeBron is superior to KD. Frankly of the guys who dominated the 2010s, I would say that LeBron (3.5), Steph (4) and one could argue Kahwi (2) clear KD.

I agree that there is definitely the distinction between best career and overall greatness, but I don’t think he’s had the best or even 2nd best career.

To me it’s a decent argument between him and Kareem and you could also argue Magic over him too. I don’t see any argument with MJ and I don’t see any argument for anyone else being above him unless we go the Bill Russell route in which case you’d almost have to put him #1. But as you said, we’ve had tons of posts on that already lol.

Kawhi vs KD is an interesting one and closer than many people think. Overall I go with KD but he obviously never did what Kawhi did in 2019 with Toronto.

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

I think he's out of the league. No one was going to offer him the type of money he wanted, and rightly so

Yes, he is. I think it's a combination of a lot of things, but I just think it boils down to the fact that Simmons never found a good situation after Philly (Brooklyn and the Clippers were toxic environments... I'm looking at you KD and Kawhi). I find it hard to believe no one offered him, when Luke Kennard got offered $11 million this year. Even Marcus Smart and DeAndre Ayton got offered. Look at how well all of them, especially Kennard, are doing in this playoff series. Simmons is more talented than all of them, and would probably be doing well in a situation like this.

I fear the same thing that happened to Simmons is happening to Ja Morant in real time. I find it hard to believe that their backups, TJ McConnell and Kennard, are better than Simmons and Morant. I really hope Morant gets on a team with LeBron or even the Pacers (or any team with structure), before his career is ruined and ends up as a wasted talent like Simmons.

 

[Federberg]

I agree that there is definitely the distinction between best career and overall greatness, but I don’t think he’s had the best or even 2nd best career.

To me it’s a decent argument between him and Kareem and you could also argue Magic over him too. I don’t see any argument with MJ and I don’t see any argument for anyone else being above him unless we go the Bill Russell route in which case you’d almost have to put him #1. But as you said, we’ve had tons of posts on that already lol.

Kawhi vs KD is an interesting one and closer than many people think. Overall I go with KD but he obviously never did what Kawhi did in 2019 with Toronto.

hmmm... I mean best career in terms of longevity, money made, stat accumulation etc. But I definitely think Kareem has a case, particularly when you include college. It would be between the two of them imho

Re: Kawhi. It's a tough one. I get why most would say KD and I don't have an issue with that. I might tip my hat to KD too to be honest. But... for sure Kahwi has done it in two different places, and Toronto was by no means a juggernaut before he got there. He can at least claim to have been a bus driver

 

[Federberg]

Yes, he is. I think it's a combination of a lot of things, but I just think it boils down to the fact that Simmons never found a good situation after Philly (Brooklyn and the Clippers were toxic environments... I'm looking at you KD and Kawhi). I find it hard to believe no one offered him, when Luke Kennard got offered $11 million this year. Even Marcus Smart and DeAndre Ayton got offered. Look at how well all of them, especially Kennard, are doing in this playoff series. Simmons is more talented than all of them, and would probably be doing well in a situation like this.

I fear the same thing that happened to Simmons is happening to Ja Morant in real time. I find it hard to believe that their backups, TJ McConnell and Kennard, are better than Simmons and Morant. I really hope Morant gets on a team with LeBron or even the Pacers (or any team with structure), before his career is ruined and ends up as a wasted talent like Simmons.

I don't think anyone disputes his talent. But the guy clearly isn't interested in basketball. He cares about getting paid. And he simply doesn't have the stones to shoot the ball. Which is a pretty significant prerequisite to be on a team.

 

[DarthFed]

Yes, he is. I think it's a combination of a lot of things, but I just think it boils down to the fact that Simmons never found a good situation after Philly (Brooklyn and the Clippers were toxic environments... I'm looking at you KD and Kawhi). I find it hard to believe no one offered him, when Luke Kennard got offered $11 million this year. Even Marcus Smart and DeAndre Ayton got offered. Look at how well all of them, especially Kennard, are doing in this playoff series. Simmons is more talented than all of them, and would probably be doing well in a situation like this.

I fear the same thing that happened to Simmons is happening to Ja Morant in real time. I find it hard to believe that their backups, TJ McConnell and Kennard, are better than Simmons and Morant. I really hope Morant gets on a team with LeBron or even the Pacers (or any team with structure), before his career is ruined and ends up as a wasted talent like Simmons.

I think Simmons for the most part had a mental breakdown and by the end had no interest in actually playing. Teams at this point would be crazy to offer him more than the veteran’s minimum. There’s also the part where he shoots the ball as well as a 1960’s era center.

Ja Morant is far from done unless he does something off the court that lands him in prison for awhile, which could always happen with him. Either way I don’t think we can say Simmons and Ja have been treated unfairly.

 

[DarthFed]

hmmm... I mean best career in terms of longevity, money made, stat accumulation etc. But I definitely think Kareem has a case, particularly when you include college. It would be between the two of them imho

Re: Kawhi. It's a tough one. I get why most would say KD and I don't have an issue with that. I might tip my hat to KD too to be honest. But... for sure Kahwi has done it in two different places, and Toronto was by no means a juggernaut before he got there. He can at least claim to have been a bus driver

Regarding best career, I’d say that’s a matter of preference. MJ has more titles, FMVP’s, MVP’s, won DPOY, and has 10 scoring titles and more defensive all NBA. LeBron has the cumulative stats, the most first team all NBA and by far the most overall all NBA teams along with one scoring title and one assist title.

Kareem is actually somewhat close to LeBron in those cumulative stats but has more rings, most MVP’s of all time, more defensive all NBA and he clearly would’ve won multiple DPOY in the 70’s if they had the award back then. You could argue Kareem had the better career than Jordan, but can’t say he’s greater when Magic was the best player on a few of those Showtime championship teams.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Where the hell is Simmons and what the hell is he doing? Haven't heard the name in a long time.

Last thing I heard Ben Simmons was changing his name to Ben Kardashian..jajaja

 

[DarthFed]

Last thing I heard Ben Simmons was changing his name to Ben Kardashian..jajaja

Kendall leveled up quickly after Ben went lame!

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

I’m guessing you are under the age of 30 if you have LeBron over MJ as GOAT. And I am far from a LeBron hater but I think that ship sailed awhile ago. And I’m not surprised LeBron is still playing like this…if he really wants to he could play until he’s 50 with the last 4 or 5 years as a 6th man. But winning the first round wouldnt add anything to his resume, at this point it’d take winning the title and being a big reason why.

Greatness to me is largely about dominance and how much better you are than your peers. Zach Lowe in an article many years ago termed it the inevitability of Michael Jordan, and I think that stated it perfectly.

While I obviously agree about Bron over KD, Ben Simmons clearly had mental issues which quickly derailed his career. I don’t think LeBron or anyone would have fixed that.

I moved LeBron to #1 on my GOAT list in May 2018, when he single-handedly led a sorry ass Cavs team to the Finals, sweeping the 1-seed Raptors and beating the 2-seed Brown/Tatum Celtics. However, he has added to his legacy since then (winning the 2020 NBA Championship), and this series is pretty much closing the debate. You can't ignore the following:

Jordan had Pippen.

Kareem and Magic had each other, plus Worthy (the 1a to Jordan on the 1982 UNC National Championship team).

LeBron, at 41, is winning in the playoffs with Luke Kennard as his next best player.

What LeBron is doing, in my opinion, is way more impressive. He is proving in this series, even at this stage of his career, that he can win with just about anyone. Jordan, Pippen, Kareem, Magic, and Worthy are all great players. They wouldn't be in the Hall of Fame if they weren't. However, it is easier to win when your team is stacked with Hall of Famers, like those 80s Lakers and 90s Bulls teams were.

 

[DarthFed]

I moved LeBron to #1 on my GOAT list in May 2018, when he single-handedly led a sorry ass Cavs team to the Finals, sweeping the 1-seed Raptors and beating the 2-seed Brown/Tatum Celtics. However, he has added to his legacy since then (winning the 2020 NBA Championship), and this series is pretty much closing the debate. You can't ignore the following:

Jordan had Pippen.

Kareem and Magic had each other, plus Worthy (the 1a to Jordan on the 1982 UNC National Championship team).

LeBron, at 41, is winning in the playoffs with Luke Kennard as his next best player.

What LeBron is doing, in my opinion, is way more impressive. He is proving in this series, even at this stage of his career, that he can win with just about anyone. Jordan, Pippen, Kareem, Magic, and Worthy are all great players. They wouldn't be in the Hall of Fame if they weren't. However, it is easier to win when your team is stacked with Hall of Famers, like those 80s Lakers and 90s Bulls teams were.

All great players need help to win. I don’t think I’d call the 91-93 Bulls stacked either. LeBron had Wade and Bosh in Miami, Kyrie and Love in Cleveland and Davis in LA. I will agree that runs to the finals in 07, 15 and 18 were extremely impressive given the scrub teams Bron was dragging. I’ve always said if I have a piss poor team and I’m drafting a player for one season to help contend, I am picking LeBron. Any other scenario I am drafting MJ.

 

[Murat B.]

I thought Simmons could score a nice deal in Europe somewhere and enjoy some FIBA basketball or even in Australia , his home country, but apparently he really does not want anything to do with basketball. What a weird situation for a number one pick.

Bron VS Jordan. Bron is a freak of nature, more than Wemby if you ask me. Shit he is pulling at this age is amazing. But I have seen Jordan and Kobe with my own eyes too so no. Jordan first, Kobe second, Bron third. I could maybe be persuaded to swap Kobe with Bron but it is hard to fight against the Mamba mentality. It is the intensity in the eyes man. I have never seen the intensity in Bron's eyes that I have seen on Jordan and Kobe.

 

[Murat B.]

The best three point shooter Raptors have is Jamison Battle. Yet, we just cannot find time for him. He is not a defensive liability or anything. He gets called tonight, wins it for Raptors with 4 timely threes. The coach has to answer for this.

 

[Federberg]

Regarding best career, I’d say that’s a matter of preference. MJ has more titles, FMVP’s, MVP’s, won DPOY, and has 10 scoring titles and more defensive all NBA. LeBron has the cumulative stats, the most first team all NBA and by far the most overall all NBA teams along with one scoring title and one assist title.

Kareem is actually somewhat close to LeBron in those cumulative stats but has more rings, most MVP’s of all time, more defensive all NBA and he clearly would’ve won multiple DPOY in the 70’s if they had the award back then. You could argue Kareem had the better career than Jordan, but can’t say he’s greater when Magic was the best player on a few of those Showtime championship teams.

I don't think we're disagreeing, it's more of a definitional thing. Career for Lebron because of longevity doing what you love, and making a truck load of money while you're doing it. If you ask the average NBA player (who is doing this because it's the only thing they're good at, the money will most likely be the primary motivator), they would take Lebron's career for the money with a dash of sporting success, over almost anyone else's career. The psychos, and fans like you and I? We want the glory. We want Jordan and Kareem and Russell, before Lebron. Hope I'm making the distinction clearer..

PS, and yes I know Jordan found financial success off the paint. I'm excluding endorsements etc from this.

 

[Federberg]

I thought Simmons could score a nice deal in Europe somewhere and enjoy some FIBA basketball or even in Australia , his home country, but apparently he really does not want anything to do with basketball. What a weird situation for a number one pick.

Bron VS Jordan. Bron is a freak of nature, more than Wemby if you ask me. Shit he is pulling at this age is amazing. But I have seen Jordan and Kobe with my own eyes too so no. Jordan first, Kobe second, Bron third. I could maybe be persuaded to swap Kobe with Bron but it is hard to fight against the Mamba mentality. It is the intensity in the eyes man. I have never seen the intensity in Bron's eyes that I have seen on Jordan and Kobe.

I completely agree. Will to win. Willing to accept losing in the pursuit of trying to win a championship. MJ, Kobe and Steph have that. Lebron builds excuses before he's even lost!

 

[Federberg]

Kuminga has been outstanding in these playoffs. It irritates me when people use any success of his to indict Kerr. He was not a fit. That doesn't mean he's not awesome. It doesn't mean most GSW fans don't root for him. For me... I blame Lacob

 

[Federberg]

If the Hawks keep playing like this, Mike Brown is going to get the boot. I actually think he would be a good fit back in the Bay. He knows the system, he knows the core guys. It think it could work