Chapel Hill Shooting

[brokenshoelace]

Obviously since the perpetrator is a white male, he's just a mentally troubled lone-wolf (as opposed to a Muslim killer making his whole religion guilty or a black man making his whole race guilty).

Also, the coverage (or lack thereof) has been shameful. Though of course, due to the backlash regarding said lack of coverage, it will intensify to save face.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I just heard it here, reading your post, and googled it afterwards. No 24/7 coverage on CNN, that's for sure. Condolences...poor kids. I saw pictures of them in a North Carolina basketball game. Just your everyday kids...sad.

 

[calitennis127]

Obviously since the perpetrator is a white male, he's just a mentally troubled lone-wolf (as opposed to a Muslim killer making his whole religion guilty or a black man making his whole race guilty).

Also, the coverage (or lack thereof) has been shameful. Though of course, due to the backlash regarding said lack of coverage, it will intensify to save face.

Actually, the reason for the lack of coverage is that if you look into this character at all, he is anything but a right-wing Christian. He is actually someone that the mainstream media would consider an enlightened modern American citizen. According to his Facebook page, he favored the construction of the Ground Zero mosque, reads the Huffington Post, and also is a major supporter of the Soviet I mean Southern Poverty Law Center. He is also an admirer of Bill Maher, Richard Dawkins, and Sam Harris and a supporter of LGBT rights. As you can see from his Facebook likes, he is favorable to "new-age" atheism.

Some “Likes” from his Facebook page (compiled by someone who has been looking into his history): The Huffington Post; The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science (Official); Bill Nye The Science Guy; Sarah Silverman; Penn & Teller: Bullshit!; Militant Atheism for the Soul; The Anti-Theist; Stop the World, the Teabaggers Want Off; Atheist Uprising; Stop FB’s Unfair Treatment of Atheist Pages, Content and Profiles; Science: The Magic of Reality; LGBT / Atheist Alliance; Militant Atheism; Scary Bible Quote of the Day; The Extreme Atheist; Science or STFU; Abrahamic Insanity; Neil deGrasse Tyson; Sam Harris; Iranian atheist/agnostic movement; Confronting Ignorance In Religion; World Atheists: Lets Kick Islam and Christianity out of Africa; Religion Must End; Merry christmyth; Pass The 28th Amendment – Complete Removal Of The Church From The State; Hammer the Gods; The LGBT Pink Panthers Movement; The Rachel Maddow Fan Page; Pissing Off The Religious Right; Keep your Bible out of our Vaginas; Mitt Romney Sucks; Separation of Church and State; Southern Poverty Law Center; LGBT Equality World Wide; Anti-Theists, Activist Atheists Fighting Religion; Still here? Silly Christians; Real Men are Kind to Animals; Dogs are family; Have A Gay Day; Kentuckians Against the War on Women; LGBT Activism; Jesus McChrist; Stop Animal Cruelty Groups/ Pages on FB, and help animals in need; Denying Evolution Won’t Make Your God Any More Real; Dogs Against Romney; The Atheist’s Bible Commentary; Organization for Educating Misinformed Tea Party Patriots; GOPHypocrisy; Liberals Against Conservative Propaganda; Fundies Say The Darndest Things; Arrest the Pope and Tax Religion (direct action); Not wasting my Sundays at church; Network for Church Monitoring; No Honor In Gods Or Religion; American Atheists, Inc. (Official); Dominionism is destroying America; Gun Toting Liberal; Christians vs. Atheists (Discussion board); SAGE (Straight Americans for Gay Equality); Americans United for Separation of Church and State; The God Delusion; End Tax Exempt Status for Churches and other Religious Organizations; Change The Law and Tax Churches; Take “Under God” Out of the Pledge of Allegiance; Obama Backs Mosque Near Ground Zero: “This is America”; Stop The Westboro Baptist Church!; and many, many more.

 

[calitennis127]

I guess we have our first atheist in history who ever killed someone. This is truly a landmark event.

 

[calitennis127]

How about this gem from this great atheist mind? From the Washington Post:

He had frequently shared links about atheism on what appeared to be his Facebook page. One such post reads: “People say nothing can solve the Middle East problem, not mediation, not arms, not financial aid. I say there is something. Atheism.”

:laydownlaughing.....new-age atheists are such ignorant people. One day they will be exposed for what they are and at least some of them will have shame.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/02/11/three-killed-in-shooting-near-university-of-north-carolina/

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

How about this gem from this great atheist mind? From the Washington Post:

He had frequently shared links about atheism on what appeared to be his Facebook page. One such post reads: “People say nothing can solve the Middle East problem, not mediation, not arms, not financial aid. I say there is something. Atheism.”

:laydownlaughing.....new-age atheists are such ignorant people. One day they will be exposed for what they are and at least some of them will have shame.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/02/11/three-killed-in-shooting-near-university-of-north-carolina/

Have you ever met a person who you did not clump into one category? Every atheist is ignorant, every Muslim is a jihadist terrorist, every NBA coach is an idiot...I hereby sentence you to read a book or two about "individualism". It will be good for you .

 

[calitennis127]

How about this gem from this great atheist mind? From the Washington Post:

He had frequently shared links about atheism on what appeared to be his Facebook page. One such post reads: “People say nothing can solve the Middle East problem, not mediation, not arms, not financial aid. I say there is something. Atheism.”

:laydownlaughing.....new-age atheists are such ignorant people. One day they will be exposed for what they are and at least some of them will have shame.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/02/11/three-killed-in-shooting-near-university-of-north-carolina/

Have you ever met a person who you did not clump into one category? Every atheist is ignorant, every Muslim is a jihadist terrorist, every NBA coach is an idiot...I hereby sentence you to read a book or two about "individualism". It will be good for you .

When have I once said that every Muslim is a jihad terrorist?:lolz::lolz:

And yes, I do consider new-age atheists in general to be very ignorant people. I meet them all the time and they never fail to disappoint with how little they know about anything.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

How about this gem from this great atheist mind? From the Washington Post:

He had frequently shared links about atheism on what appeared to be his Facebook page. One such post reads: “People say nothing can solve the Middle East problem, not mediation, not arms, not financial aid. I say there is something. Atheism.”

:laydownlaughing.....new-age atheists are such ignorant people. One day they will be exposed for what they are and at least some of them will have shame.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/02/11/three-killed-in-shooting-near-university-of-north-carolina/

Have you ever met a person who you did not clump into one category? Every atheist is ignorant, every Muslim is a jihadist terrorist, every NBA coach is an idiot...I hereby sentence you to read a book or two about "individualism". It will be good for you .

When have I once said that every Muslim is a jihad terrorist?:lolz::lolz:

And yes, I do consider new-age atheists in general to be very ignorant people. I meet them all the time and they never fail to disappoint with how little they know about anything.

Oh, you probably have not said it in those words...it was MY interpretation...:laydownlaughing
Problems with that???:lolz:

As far as atheists being ignorant...well, you avoid the ones that would challenge your belief system, so you do not read them. It is a kind of cognitive dissonance, belief disconfirmation paradigm.

I still say give Dennett, Harris, Hawking and Sagan a shot...

 

[calitennis127]

Oh, you probably have not said it in those words...it was MY interpretation...:laydownlaughing
Problems with that???:lolz:

Yes, and I find your sarcasm pathetically foolish. We are on a political board here discussing politics in straight prose. Something like the Book of Genesis or Scripture was never meant to be an all-encompassing final word on every matter under the sun without any irony or deeper meanings. It is typical of lazy atheists to look at Scripture without any type of intellectual rigor. Someone like Pope Benedict XVI is just over their heads.

As far as atheists being ignorant...well, you avoid the ones that would challenge your belief system, so you do not read them. It is a kind of cognitive dissonance, belief disconfirmation paradigm.

I still say give Dennett, Harris, Hawking and Sagan a shot...

Reading Hitchens amounts to following a comedy of errors. Harris is a smart guy but there are limitations to his insights.

Personally, I prefer Ayn Rand.....I am a member of her cult. She was the wisest human to ever live.

And you, frankly, are one of the last people who should talk about not reading "the other side". I have grown up around dime-a-dozen ex-Christian agnostics with identical views to you, so hearing the "other side" is pretty much my life story.

 

[calitennis127]

I am still just so puzzled at how a militant atheist who supports LGBT rights and agrees with murat about what they call "religion" could ever do something violent.....this is just shocking. No atheist in history has ever harmed anyone. This is truly the first time it has happened!

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I am still just so puzzled at how a militant atheist who supports LGBT rights and agrees with murat about what they call "religion" could ever do something violent.....this is just shocking. No atheist in history has ever harmed anyone. This is truly the first time it has happened!

How do you know he agrees with me ? He does not know me.

Repeat after me Cali: Clumping...BAD, individualism...GOOD.

I know it is tough for you , being part of a herd that blindly follows mythical books written by men hundreds of years ago to understand that every individual is different, but for GOD's sake, try man... I know there is still an individual in you...

By the way, I am told that guy killed those kids over a parking issue:cover So yeah, very sound minded, clever, solid chap. Just like every atheist I know. We are all like that Cali. When the issue is parking, we just go nuts, can't help ourselves...:snicker . I just killed a woman who could not parallel-park last night. It was very satisfying, as an atheist.

 

[nehmeth]

I know it is tough for you , being part of a herd that blindly follows mythical books written by men hundreds of years ago to understand that every individual is different, but for GOD's sake, try man... I know there is still an individual in you...

:nono

Um, I hope you are just kidding Murat. Even so, I find it offensive. As part of that herd you claim blindly follows mythical books... the one Book I happen to believe in places a very high value on individual accountability. I would venture to guess some of the others would do likewise.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I know it is tough for you , being part of a herd that blindly follows mythical books written by men hundreds of years ago to understand that every individual is different, but for GOD's sake, try man... I know there is still an individual in you...

:nono

Um, I hope you are just kidding Murat. Even so, I find it offensive. As part of that herd you claim blindly follows mythical books... the one Book I happen to believe in places a very high value on individual accountability. I would venture to guess some of the others would do likewise.

Come on man...the emoticons, "GOD" in all caps...It was a jab at Cali.
Sorry if you are offended.
I hope you were offended by Cali's generalizations up there too...even though they were not concerning you. That would only be fair, no?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Is there any point in claiming something is offensive when arguing about religion? Literally every opposing view can be deemed offensive. Imagine if you revolve your whole life around Jesus Christ and someone denounces him, or you live your whole life worshiping something only for someone to tell you he/she/it doesn't exist, or following a prophet others refer to as a war lord and a criminal, etc... Literally every opposing big picture religious view can be considered offensive. This isn't a Fedal debate.

That's why I stay clear of existential debates (whether god exists, which religion is right, etc...). But if I were to take part in them, I wouldn't bother referring to anything as offensive since chances are, by merely partaking in the discussion, I'll say something that someone else will find offensive. That's how it works, for better or worse.

 

[calitennis127]

How do you know he agrees with me ? He does not know me.

Should I even deign to consider this an attempt at being clever - at wiggling out of something utterly obvious? Good grief murat. Look at the list of "likes" on his Facebook page. Having had discussions with you for a while, I know very well that you agree with his positions. Let's just take a small sample, shall we? Let's just go with these 10:

- The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science (Official)
- Science: The Magic of Reality
- Scary Bible Quote of the Day
- The Anti-Theist
- Americans United for Separation of Church and State
- The Extreme Atheist
- Religion Must End
- Pass The 28th Amendment – Complete Removal Of The Church From The State
- LGBT / Atheist Alliance
- Anti-Theists, Activist Atheists Fighting Religion

Now tell me, murat, which of those perspectives do you disagree with? I will wait all day waiting for that answer, because you won't provide it. Sorry for "clumping" you with someone who clearly agrees with your positions.

Repeat after me Cali: Clumping...BAD, individualism...GOOD.

Okay, sure.

"Clumping...Bad - when it doesn't make sense, which is not the case when it comes to modern atheist ignorance."

"Individualism...GOOD - when it makes sense, like when it comes to JR Smith on a basketball court but not so much a misinformed advocate of 'separation of church and state'".

I know it is tough for you , being part of a herd that blindly follows mythical books written by men hundreds of years ago to understand that every individual is different, but for GOD's sake, try man... I know there is still an individual in you...

Actually Christianity teaches that all human beings - including you - have individual uniqueness and individual dignity. So this is something I fully understand. "Individualism" as you are defining it has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation.

By the way, I am told that guy killed those kids over a parking issue:cover So yeah, very sound minded, clever, solid chap. Just like every atheist I know. We are all like that Cali. When the issue is parking, we just go nuts, can't help ourselves...:snicker . I just killed a woman who could not parallel-park last night. It was very satisfying, as an atheist.

For you to somehow twist my words to make it sound like I am saying that atheists frequently kill people over parking disputes is laughably silly. Nowhere did I even imply that. No, I don't think that you target Canadian Christians in parking lots, murat; let me make that completely clear.

The three main points I have made in this conversation are:

1) The lack of media coverage has to do with the problem for the media that if they expose the details of who this guy was it won't fit their moralistic narrative, just as was the case with the awful killing of Jesse Dirkhising. If this guy who shot the three Muslims in Chapel Hill was a Southern Baptist, we would not hear the end of it. But because he was a Richard Dawkins-Rachel Maddow fan and an advocate of separating church and state, the leftist media must be cautious in the extent to which it covers the story.

2) This individual's views were just not very intelligent - if you view them in a vacuum and just judge them as ideas.

3) An atheist did something all people agree is egregiously immoral.

Regarding point #3, the reason I brought that up is because you and other atheists frequently make the argument that "no one has ever killed someone in the name of atheism, but millions have died in the name of religion". There are numerous flaws in that argument, but here are just three: a) the number of times that religion has caused people to show restraint from not doing evil because of a moral conscience is incalculably high (something you give religion no credit for), b) belief in atheism leaves a wide-open vacuum in the human mind and soul for embracing violent political ideologies - which actually shows the human need for religion - that have lead to untold numbers of deaths in just the last century (consider Communism, Nazism, and lovers of democracy), and 3) (as was the case for the Chapel Hill shooter) unfettered atheistic lifestyles lead to long-run degeneracy of the soul, making it very susceptible to allowing people to carry out the worst kinds of actions.

So my point is not at all that all atheists shoot people over parking disputes. I didn't think I would have to make that clear!

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Cali, seriously, the guy shot three innocent people execution style, does it matter what we agree on at this point? We have nothing in common in a basic human level...Stalin killed thousands, he is an atheist. Murat is atheist. So Murat=Stalin? There are millions out there that love Jesus , who believe the world is 5000 years old. You love Jesus too. That means You=Moron? Not likely. I actually think you are pretty smart about a lot of things.

So, can't we just say condolences to these poor kid's family and leave it at that?

 

[brokenshoelace]

My main problem with Cali's arguments when it comes to, well, anything really, is he seems to think correlation implies causation. It doesn't. That's a pretty basic rule.

 

[calitennis127]

Cali, seriously, the guy shot three innocent people execution style, does it matter what we agree on at this point?

Then why wasn't your first response on this thread to Broken exactly that? He made this post not to mourn for three people but to make a political point. Blame him, not me. Did I start this thread?

None of us know the three people killed so given our distance we can only feign real suffering. Of course, I wish the family and friends of those killed the very best in this time, but naturally this is going to be made a political issue faster than you can say "tomorrow". Like the Matthew Shepherd case with so-called "homophobia", this case will be used as the shining example of "Islamophobia" in American culture by the media and universities.

Furthermore, the leftist media in America exploits every murder they can to teach moral lessons. Whenever a school shooting takes place it takes no longer than 10 minutes for every major news network to ramp up the gun control propaganda. MSNBC right now is using this Chapel Hill incident to lecture Americans on Islamophobia. And it didn't take CAIR more than 5 minutes to do the same.

We have nothing in common in a basic human level...Stalin killed thousands, he is an atheist. Murat is atheist. So Murat=Stalin?

Again, that is not what I am making a point about. What I am addressing is your oft-repeated argument that religion causes war more than anything else and that atheism would resolve the world's problems. The reality is that atheists have done terrible things and much of it can be attributed to their atheism. But that does not mean every atheist shoots people over parking spots.

Fundamentally, it is not "religion" that causes wars but "beliefs" of all stripes. This is what I am pointing out.

There are millions out there that love Jesus , who believe the world is 5000 years old. You love Jesus too. That means You=Moron? Not likely. I actually think you are pretty smart about a lot of things.

Thank you.

So, can't we just say condolences to these poor kid's family and leave it at that?

Because we live in a scummy world where such high-mindedness is simply not possible. The New York Times, MSNBC, CAIR, etc. are already using this as a moral lesson the same way they used Matthew Shepherd's death, and Broken right here immediately used this killing to make a political point.

Plus, none of us is close to this situation, so it's not like we are being rude to grieving relatives by making this a political conversation.

 

[calitennis127]

My main problem with Cali's arguments when it comes to, well, anything really, is he seems to think correlation implies causation. It doesn't. That's a pretty basic rule.

Yeah, but causation exists, and it shouldn't be dismissed every time you don't like the cause.

What's interesting talking to you and murat is that you are each ex-Muslim atheists. Now allow me to ask you two: when it comes to the last two major incidents of Western-Islamic tensions (Paris and Chapel Hill), who was doing the damage to Muslims - atheists or Christians?

It wasn't a devout Christian who drew those viciously blasphemous cartoons of Muhammad (as well as Christ). And it wasn't a Southern redneck Christian farmer who shot three Muslims in Chapel Hill. I guess modern atheists have their firmly held beliefs, and prejudices, and they might just be.....gasp, bigots.

 

[brokenshoelace]

My main problem with Cali's arguments when it comes to, well, anything really, is he seems to think correlation implies causation. It doesn't. That's a pretty basic rule.

Yeah, but causation exists, and it shouldn't be dismissed every time you don't like the cause.

What's interesting talking to you and murat is that you are each ex-Muslim atheists.

Let me stop you right there. That's part of your problem. You assume too much. I am not an ex-Muslim. I was born Druze, not Muslim. I am also not an atheist, as I believe in god. I just don't believe in religion and its depiction and understanding of god.

But to answer your question because I don't want you to think I'm dodging it: Atheists, like Christians, like Muslims, like...humans, are capable of atrocities.