2018 French Open Men's final: Nadal v Thiem

[atttomole]

No way I see how he destroyed zverev in the Qtr finals, thiem is the next champion at Roland garros.

You are assuming that Zverev is not going to improve?

 

[Andy22]

You are assuming that Zverev is not going to improve?

Zverev will improve but he never be as good as thiem on clay man?

 

[Fiero425]

No way I see how he destroyed Zverev in the Qtr-Finals, thiem is the next champion at Roland Garros.

Sasha had worn himself out winning another Masters and then going 5 sets 3 times earlier in Paris! His stamina is an issue; maybe not in just one match, but over a period of time that obviously takes it's toll! :whistle:

 

[Andy22]

Sasha had worn himself out winning another Masters and then going 5 sets 3 times earlier in Paris! His stamina is an issue; maybe not in just one match, but over a period of time that obviously takes it's toll! :whistle:

I think thiem still would have beaten a fresh sasha not in straight sets 4/5 and yes get your saying that last word smart ass.

 

[DarthFed]

Zverev has much higher potential than Thiem even on clay. Sascha needs to grow into his body more.

 

[Federberg]

Congrats to Rafa and his fans. Fedal still crushing it

 

[Murat B.]

Zverev has much higher potential than Thiem even on clay. Sascha needs to grow into his body more.

I agree with this. I feel like those two will have some epic battles but Sascha will always be the better player, even on clay in a year or so.

 

[DarthFed]

I agree with this. I feel like those two will have some epic battles but Sascha will always be the better player, even on clay in a year or so.

I'd like that final there next year but the hair-plugged Bull will likely win the next couple. Those younger guys aren't elite yet. It helps Roger too, he needs to embrace the challenge from Nadal and win a couple more to secure his legacy. And with this field the only things I worry about are health and motivation. A 40 year old Fed still has more talent in his pinky than these new guns.

 

[Moxie]

Rosewall is an old skooler, says it how he thinks it is. If they wanted political correctness then they should have invited Billie Jean King to make the speech.

Pardon the interruption, but I think this is one reason that we have so many disagreements when we discuss the matter of PC. Rosewall's comment had nothing to do with politics. It was a social gaffe, if you're GSM, who thought it was inappropriate, or it was KR speaking his mind, to you. Either way, it's not about being PC or non-PC.

BJK would've wanted them to shave their legs and wear skirts ffs

To me, this identifies a real problem that some of you have with PC...that it's emasculating. I guess that's one of the ways we got Trump, over here. Being rude isn't the same as eschewing the politically correct. (And btw, I didn't find the remark that offensive. That's not the point.)

 

[DarthFed]

Pardon the interruption, but I think this is one reason that we have so many disagreements when we discuss the matter of PC. Rosewall's comment had nothing to do with politics. It was a social gaffe, if you're GSM, who thought it was inappropriate, or it was KR speaking his mind, to you. Either way, it's not about being PC or non-PC.
To me, this identifies a real problem that some of you have with PC...that it's emasculating. I guess that's one of the ways we got Trump, over here. Being rude isn't the same as eschewing the politically correct. (And btw, I didn't find the remark that offensive. That's not the point.)

Sports are full of political correctness to a fault. Commentators can't say anything remotely bad about players and can't really call it how they see it. Players also have to be nice to each other and congratulate them even when they get their asses kicked otherwise they will be criticized. Rosewall's comments are a breath of fresh air IMO.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Sports are full of political correctness to a fault. Commentators can't say anything remotely bad about players and can't really call it how they see it. Players also have to be nice to each other and congratulate them even when they get their asses kicked otherwise they will be criticized. Rosewall's comments are a breath of fresh air IMO.

I mostly agree with this, but I think the comment was a little misplaced considering Thiem was standing right there and had just lost a major final. Looked like kicking him while he's down and doing it to his face. If Rosewall was saying it on commentary it would have been completely fair game. Nevertheless, I don't think it's a big deal.

 

[Moxie]

Sports are full of political correctness to a fault. Commentators can't say anything remotely bad about players and can't really call it how they see it. Players also have to be nice to each other and congratulate them even when they get their asses kicked otherwise they will be criticized. Rosewall's comments are a breath of fresh air IMO.

You completely missed the point that I don't consider this in any way "political correctness." It's not political, except perhaps that it's "office politics" or company policy that sports commentators speak they way they do. There's no politics involved for Rosewall, however. Call it being civil or polite or whatever. When Broken says he thought it was a bit rough to say it in front of Thiem, or if GSM said it was "inappropriate," it's not them been offended by a racial or ethnic or gender slur. To the extent that they thought it wrong, it was simply a matter of civility, or behavior appropriate to the situation. I'm saying you guys don't use the term correctly. I don't care especially about what Rosewall said.

 

[Moxie]

I'd like that final there next year but the hair-plugged Bull will likely win the next couple. Those younger guys aren't elite yet. It helps Roger too, he needs to embrace the challenge from Nadal and win a couple more to secure his legacy. And with this field the only things I worry about are health and motivation. A 40 year old Fed still has more talent in his pinky than these new guns.

Do you keep a list of insulting names for Nadal, or do you just make them up on the fly? Some of the young guys will become truly elite players (they're pretty high up there already, though.) But they're unlikely ever to reach Nadal, Fed or Djokovic. That's simply a level you don't get even every couple of generations.

 

[Fiero425]

Do you keep a list of insulting names for Nadal, or do you just make them up on the fly? Some of the young guys will become truly elite players (they're pretty high up there already, though.) But they're unlikely ever to reach Nadal, Fed or Djokovic. That's simply a level you don't get even every couple of generations.

I'm sure I've posted something on this very historic era! We had Laver (60's) twice winning the CYGS, then a sprinkling of greatness once a decade with Connors taking 3 of 4 majors in '74, Wilander equally that fete in '88, culminating in Sampras' dominance winning most of his record breaking effort in the 90's; finishing with 14 majors in '02! After that we had a succession of "GREATS" that have routinely outdone past generations with Federer winning 3 majors 3 times, Nadal once, and Djokovic not only winning 3 majors twice, completed his "Nole-slam" in '16! I think we can be assured their #'s will last quite a while w/ the mediocrity being foisted on us of the current "Next-Gens!" :whistle:

 

[DarthFed]

You completely missed the point that I don't consider this in any way "political correctness." It's not political, except perhaps that it's "office politics" or company policy that sports commentators speak they way they do. There's no politics involved for Rosewall, however. Call it being civil or polite or whatever. When Broken says he thought it was a bit rough to say it in front of Thiem, or if GSM said it was "inappropriate," it's not them been offended by a racial or ethnic or gender slur. To the extent that they thought it wrong, it was simply a matter of civility, or behavior appropriate to the situation. I'm saying you guys don't use the term correctly. I don't care especially about what Rosewall said.

I know political correctness has "politic" in it but let's be real, it covers way more than just politics today. Like if I use the word "retard" instead of mentally slow for someone with down syndrome I am being politically incorrect. And in sports a commentator that talks bad about any athlete's performance is considered overly harsh. Anyone not quick to bend over and kiss the winner's arse after a loss is also considered to be wrong as being a sore loser is a terrible thing.

 

[Moxie]

I know political correctness has "politic" in it but let's be real, it covers way more than just politics today. Like if I use the word "retard" instead of mentally slow for someone with down syndrome I am being politically incorrect. And in sports a commentator that talks bad about any athlete's performance is considered overly harsh. Anyone not quick to bend over and kiss the winner's arse after a loss is also considered to be wrong as being a sore loser is a terrible thing.

I beg to differ. Demeaning a person, or not, on an individual basis is a question of civility and etiquette, which is an individual choice. That, however, is not slagging a person via group affiliation, which crosses into the realm of "politics," in the form of what the wider society has deemed unacceptable. I'm sure you can see the difference. If not, let me make you a clearer example. For Rosewall to say in public that Thiem was disappointing was merely a comment on Dominic, individually, and how he played. Everyone can decide for themselves if they thought it crossed a line of etiquette or appropriateness. Had he said, however, "Thiem, like all Austrians, played disappointingly under pressure," THAT would have been politically incorrect, as he would have been demeaning a whole group, and demeaning Thiem, not for his individual performance, but simply because all Austrians fold like a cheap tent, in his estimation. Does that help?

As to what commentators say and don't say in the course of their hours of palaver during tennis, that is another question. They are contracted by networks, and we can see that there is little room for real individual opinion. This is a wholly different question, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the notion of political correctness. It has to do with appealing to the masses, assuaging the nerves of the big brass against loss of viewers/ad revenue. We can see they let a few loose cannons in, like McEnroe and Wilander and Becker. And what happens? Everyone here hates them. But they're there to spice it up. It's all a calculation, and it's all but scripted. That's TV, not PC.

 

[Moxie]

I know political correctness has "politic" in it but let's be real, it covers way more than just politics today. Like if I use the word "retard" instead of mentally slow for someone with down syndrome I am being politically incorrect. And in sports a commentator that talks bad about any athlete's performance is considered overly harsh. Anyone not quick to bend over and kiss the winner's arse after a loss is also considered to be wrong as being a sore loser is a terrible thing.

Also, to your notion of how losers treat winners at the end of a match: neither is this a matter of political correctness, though it is consistent with tennis's sense of itself as a gentleman's/ladies' sport. I don't know if you'd prefer if they'd kick them in the shins or prefer not to shake hands, but this is the nature of our sport. The handshake at the net is a matter of tennis etiquette. Note "etiquette," not political correctness.

 

[DarthFed]

I beg to differ. Demeaning a person, or not, on an individual basis is a question of civility and etiquette, which is an individual choice. That, however, is not slagging a person via group affiliation, which crosses into the realm of "politics," in the form of what the wider society has deemed unacceptable. I'm sure you can see the difference. If not, let me make you a clearer example. For Rosewall to say in public that Thiem was disappointing was merely a comment on Dominic, individually, and how he played. Everyone can decide for themselves if they thought it crossed a line of etiquette or appropriateness. Had he said, however, "Thiem, like all Austrians, played disappointingly under pressure," THAT would have been politically incorrect, as he would have been demeaning a whole group, and demeaning Thiem, not for his individual performance, but simply because all Austrians fold like a cheap tent, in his estimation. Does that help?

As to what commentators say and don't say in the course of their hours of palaver during tennis, that is another question. They are contracted by networks, and we can see that there is little room for real individual opinion. This is a wholly different question, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the notion of political correctness. It has to do with appealing to the masses, assuaging the nerves of the big brass against loss of viewers/ad revenue. We can see they let a few loose cannons in, like McEnroe and Wilander and Becker. And what happens? Everyone here hates them. But they're there to spice it up. It's all a calculation, and it's all but scripted. That's TV, not PC.

I get your point but I feel like political correctness as we know it today embodies more than just politics and offensive comments about groups of people.

Rosewall saying Thiem was disappointing did not offend a group of people but most of society would see it as inappropriate for him to speak his mind at such a moment. The "politically correct" thing to do was to congratulate Thiem on a great tournament and say it was a great effort today, etc.

 

[Moxie]

I get your point but I feel like political correctness as we know it today embodies more than just politics and offensive comments about groups of people.

Rosewall saying Thiem was disappointing did not offend a group of people but most of society would see it as inappropriate for him to speak his mind at such a moment. The "politically correct" thing to do was to congratulate Thiem on a great tournament.

No, the "polite" thing to do would have been to congratulate Thiem on a great tournament. Rosewall chose to use his moment to slap him a bit. We can debate whether it was rude, or refreshingly brash, but it wasn't more than that. "Political correctness" doesn't embody more than politics and offensive comments about groups of people. That is exactly what it's about. And all that it's about. The fact that it's been coopted to be equated with various opinions on etiquette is a triumph of those who are against some "liberal agenda." Don't buy into it. You're a smart guy. Understand terms. Using "PC" as a catch-phrase for what is really about general civility is lazy thinking.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Rafa winning Roland Garros has become so routine that the biggest takeaway was a harsh adjective used by a 109-year old former player about the runner-up's performance.