2015 Masters Series 1000 Miami Final: Djokovic v. Murray

[Great Hands]

Andy reminds me of Rafa when he returned in 2009, or Rafa currently: when players miss significant parts of the season through injury, they lose touch a little, then on return they're keyed up but they're off the pace, so they lose matches, they then get uptight about this and their confidence takes a knock, they try too hard, can become despondent, a whole vicious circle until they get some big wins again.

Rafa spoke of being nervous recently, and this is understandable: he's been blighted by injuries and he's not on form, he's getting hits from guys he probably doesn't even recognise. But for Andy, it;s going on a bit long. He had a great FO last year, but then at Wimbledon he inexplicably dropped a calf against Grigor. Nothing to do with fatigue, this was all mental.

Still he competed well at the USO and was doing great in the late season events, had a strong Oz, and it afflicted him again, just when he'd gathered momentum in the final. I don't see Mauresmo correcting this, since she seems to have accepted his old whining negativity towards the players box as being nothing problematical. I think he'd benefit from a couple of wins against a top player, because tennis-wise, he's close, and physically - sorry - he's strong, but he lost something under the blade and unlike Rafa, who has mental strength to burn, he doesn't seem able to correct it yet...

Murray was clearly of ther pace phsyciasllt theroughout last year. he got a bit better towards the end of the year, but the ao this year was a drmatic inoprivemtn. his movementy, even when compared to the latter stages of 2014, was so much better, it was like night and day.



I agree with you to some extent. Although I would question a few things: Andy did not have a 'great' French Open last year. He beat players he should beat, sometimes making a meal of it, and then got a beat-down by Rafa. It was an o.k. FO, but he didn't beat a top 10 player or anything. He didn't beat a top 10 player until much later in the year -

i agree abouthe match with grior at wd - most disappointng - and inexplaicvbale- match of his entire caerer for me. not jus the loss, but the way he lost. to this day i don';t know what hpnned - i gues he just got out on the worng side of bed.

uso he did o.k. - lost hte ohhsycai battle with djok - again. i agree that murray had a mental lapse in teh oz final, but djok also raised his level...
even without having a metnal wobble, andy still would have lost. djokovic is too godd at ao for andy, and for anyone excveopt stan once in last 5 years.

put tit this way- the pre-surgery andy who was working with lendl wld not have won that ao final this year either.

lendl helped murray to have a more attacking metnalut, and to resdet better. but hwe still needed the big 3 to underperform to beat them. i hope he can have the confidence to take advatne if that hapens again. the guy has been competing with arguanly trhe 2 greatst eve4r and another top 10 of all time. uit's a testament to teh qualitry of this era - at hte top of the game - that a man of his talent has only 2 majors.

murray does have metnal strength, intesity and fighting spriot. it's got hio ut of lots of tight spots in his career, where he's raised his level when required. his mental strenfth is one of things that separetes him from the berdychs and the tdongas of this world, although he's rarely priase for it, becasue he's always comapred to the palyers above him - all-time greats.


the point i have been making on these boards is that

 

[Great Hands]

Andy reminds me of Rafa when he returned in 2009, or Rafa currently: when players miss significant parts of the season through injury, they lose touch a little, then on return they're keyed up but they're off the pace, so they lose matches, they then get uptight about this and their confidence takes a knock, they try too hard, can become despondent, a whole vicious circle until they get some big wins again.

Rafa spoke of being nervous recently, and this is understandable: he's been blighted by injuries and he's not on form, he's getting hits from guys he probably doesn't even recognise. But for Andy, it;s going on a bit long. He had a great FO last year, but then at Wimbledon he inexplicably dropped a calf against Grigor. Nothing to do with fatigue, this was all mental.

Still he competed well at the USO and was doing great in the late season events, had a strong Oz, and it afflicted him again, just when he'd gathered momentum in the final. I don't see Mauresmo correcting this, since she seems to have accepted his old whining negativity towards the players box as being nothing problematical. I think he'd benefit from a couple of wins against a top player, because tennis-wise, he's close, and physically - sorry - he's strong, but he lost something under the blade and unlike Rafa, who has mental strength to burn, he doesn't seem able to correct it yet...

Well, I hope both Rafa and Andy can get back to their best - they're two of my favourite players!

 

[Kieran]

It'll be an interesting few months ahead...

 

[tented]

He's training for five set matches - in Miami - and he's so knackered after only two , that he couldn't win a single game in the third... :nono

Exactly. As I watched him, I kept thinking, He trains in Miami in the high heat and humidity, and practices on this very court. He, of all people, shouldn't be getting tired, or bothered by the conditions.

Two years ago, he played Ferrer in the Miami final, winning in a third set tiebreak. The match lasted 165 minutes. Guess how long the final against Djokovic lasted? 167 minutes.

I don't think it was a physical issue, either. He's now particularly mentally weak in certain circumstances, and, as everyone knows, Murray is the master of manifesting frustration as physical ailments. (We've had an entire thread concerning which body parts he's going to grab, for example.)

 

[Fiero425]

Look even deeper at that 11-8: Nole won the first four when Andy was a yellowhorn who still picked his nose in the post match interview. Andy was going toe to toe with Nole until the op - but more than this, he was fit enough to be able to play competitive tennis for longer than two sets.

And he was winning majors.

He didn't lose 12 of the last 13 games in Oz because he was fatigued, and he didn't go away 6-0 in the third in Miami because Nole ground him down to sawdust. He's training for five set matches - in Miami - and he's so knackered after only two , that he couldn't win a single game in the third... :nono

I love that word "knackered!" :snicker

 

[Great Hands]

He's training for five set matches - in Miami - and he's so knackered after only two , that he couldn't win a single game in the third... :nono

Exactly. As I watched him, I kept thinking, He trains in Miami in the high heat and humidity, and practices on this very court. He, of all people, shouldn't be getting tired, or bothered by the conditions.

Two years ago, he played Ferrer in the Miami final, winning in a third set tiebreak. The match lasted 165 minutes. Guess how long the final against Djokovic lasted? 167 minutes.

I don't think it was a physical issue, either. He's now particularly mentally weak in certain circumstances, and, as everyone knows, Murray is the master of manifesting frustration as physical ailments. (We've had an entire thread concerning which body parts he's going to grab, for example.)

but novak has baggeled or breadsticked 21 times this year already. he crushed kei in a 3rd set yesterday. and kei has teh stamina to play, and win, tough 5 setters. so I guess kei, and stan, who is also mroe than cpable of winning togh 5 setters, and all the other players novak has done this to, are also all 'mentally weak' too? is that your opinion? or is only andy who gets this criticism?

novak crushed kei in a 3rd set yesterday. and kei has teh stamina to play, and win, tough 5 setters. so I guess kei is 'mentally weak' too? is that your opinion? or is it only andy who gets this criticism? (novak has done this to stan this year too, and stan is also more than capable of winning tough 5 setters.)

 

[Great Hands]

He's training for five set matches - in Miami - and he's so knackered after only two , that he couldn't win a single game in the third... :nono

Exactly. As I watched him, I kept thinking, He trains in Miami in the high heat and humidity, and practices on this very court. He, of all people, shouldn't be getting tired, or bothered by the conditions.

Two years ago, he played Ferrer in the Miami final, winning in a third set tiebreak. The match lasted 165 minutes. Guess how long the final against Djokovic lasted? 167 minutes.

I don't think it was a physical issue, either. He's now particularly mentally weak in certain circumstances, and, as everyone knows, Murray is the master of manifesting frustration as physical ailments. (We've had an entire thread concerning which body parts he's going to grab, for example.)

Novak crushed Kei in a 3rd set yesterday. And Kei has the stamina to play, and win, tough 5 setters. So I guess Kei is 'mentally weak' too? Is that your opinion? Or is it only Andy who gets this criticism?

 

[Great Hands]

Look even deeper at that 11-8: Nole won the first four when Andy was a yellowhorn who still picked his nose in the post match interview. Andy was going toe to toe with Nole until the op - but more than this, he was fit enough to be able to play competitive tennis for longer than two sets.

And he was winning majors.

He didn't lose 12 of the last 13 games in Oz because he was fatigued, and he didn't go away 6-0 in the third in Miami because Nole ground him down to sawdust. He's training for five set matches - in Miami - and he's so knackered after only two , that he couldn't win a single game in the third... :nono

i'm fully aware of novaks' early run of wins agaisnt andy. my point is that from 2011 onwards, which is what's relevant,. given novak became a different player at that point, murray's ONLY wins against novak have come on faster surfaces. so by expecting murray to beat prime novak on slwo hards, you're expecitng him to do somthing he's never done before, even under lndel.