NBA (whenever)...

[DarthFed]

i thought we were discussing the greatest Laker of all time..

I was just talking about LeBron and Magic comparison. To me Magic is clearly the greatest Laker ever.

 

[DarthFed]

oh I completely rate Magic. But it always amuses me that on the one hand Kobe playing with Shaq is used against him, but Magic playing with Kareem is glossed over. I think Magic had more really good guys playing with him, and as you know I really rate the two Kobe got without Shaq. That said... you also know I think both of these guys are above Lebron. I personally wouldn't die on a ditch to say Kobe is above Magic. But as usual I think for some reason you seriously under rate Kobe. It's interesting to me that if you asked most players of the 90s and noughties, they would rate Kobe far higher than you do But as I said... I was just pointing out what I perceived as a discrepancy. Happy to look at them as 1A and 1B

People rate Kobe in large part based on style. Kobe played a lot like MJ, only wasn’t nearly as good. LeBron, particularly as he aged, isn’t as aesthetically pleasing as Kobe. And we all know LeBron is a polarizing figure to say the least and that’s with fans and former players. You have Dr. J rating Pippen ahead of him FFS. How many OG’s have said LeBron couldn’t handle playing in the 80’s and 90’s? More than I can count.

 

[Federberg]

People rate Kobe in large part based on style. Kobe played a lot like MJ, only wasn’t nearly as good. LeBron, particularly as he aged, isn’t as aesthetically pleasing as Kobe. And we all know LeBron is a polarizing figure to say the least and that’s with fans and former players. You have Dr. J rating Pippen ahead of him FFS. How many OG’s have said LeBron couldn’t handle playing in the 80’s and 90’s? More than I can count.

oh I agree there are a lot of former players that have bizarre opinions. I give you Isaiah Thomas.

But... players who played against Kobe (some who also played against MJ and Lebron), they talk about the relentlessness, the skill set, the footwork, the mentality. Fans might talk about aesthetics but not these guys. The simple fact is that these players understand how the game is played, and more specifically how it was played in Kobe's prime. For example lots of pundits/non-playing experts go on about Kobe's inefficiency but fail to account for the fact that all guards at that time looked inefficient because of how the paint was packed, the dearth of three point shooting made shooting the mid-range or going to the rim mandatory, and Kobe was the best at it at the time, but yet people look at that inefficiency and act like Kobe would have been inefficient in any era. The man did what he had to do in the era he was doing it. It is what it is. We all judge greatness by our own internal metric, but I'll take that guy over a guy willing to scapegoat coaches and team mates. A guy who really does believe that getting his stats is a defence against losing (and lord help me, but fans and pundits alike go along with that). I like Kobe because stats be damned, he was willing to look bad if it gave him a chance to win. Steph does that too by the way, he's take seemingly crazy 3 point attempts risking his shooting percentage many a time.

And yes... aesthetics matter, let's not kid ourselves. Aura matters. When you have that.. and you win? It's a wrap in my book

 

[DarthFed]

oh I agree there are a lot of former players that have bizarre opinions. I give you Isaiah Thomas.

But... players who played against Kobe (some who also played against MJ and Lebron), they talk about the relentlessness, the skill set, the footwork, the mentality. Fans might talk about aesthetics but not these guys. The simple fact is that these players understand how the game is played, and more specifically how it was played in Kobe's prime. For example lots of pundits/non-playing experts go on about Kobe's inefficiency but fail to account for the fact that all guards at that time looked inefficient because of how the paint was packed, the dearth of three point shooting made shooting the mid-range or going to the rim mandatory, and Kobe was the best at it at the time, but yet people look at that inefficiency and act like Kobe would have been inefficient in any era. The man did what he had to do in the era he was doing it. It is what it is. We all judge greatness by our own internal metric, but I'll take that guy over a guy willing to scapegoat coaches and team mates. And yes... aesthetics matter, let's not kid ourselves. Aura matters. When you have that.. and you win? It's a wrap in my book

I wouldn’t discount the inefficiency so quickly. People forget that LeBron came into the league just 7 years after Kobe and never really had the same inefficient scoring. Kobe played large chunk of his career with Phil Jackson and he did almost force himself out of LA when things got really tough. People of course forget Kobe quitting in a winner takes all game 7 against the Suns after his team blew a 3-1 lead. Google Kobe’s stats in game 7’s, close out games and the NBA finals and compare those to LeBron. People can hype up Mamba mentality, can brush off stats, but sometimes things are too telling to be ignored.

 

[Federberg]

I wouldn’t discount the inefficiency so quickly. People forget that LeBron came into the league just 7 years after Kobe and never really had the same inefficient scoring. Kobe played large chunk of his career with Phil Jackson and he did almost force himself out of LA when things got really tough. People of course forget Kobe quitting in a winner takes all game 7 against the Suns after his team blew a 3-1 lead. Google Kobe’s stats in game 7’s, close out games and the NBA finals and compare those to LeBron. People can hype up Mamba mentality, can brush off stats, but sometimes things are too telling to be ignored.

they scored in different ways though. Kobe was never going to be able to lower that shoulder and barge his way to the rim. I don't think anyone would reasonably expect a shooting guard to be more efficient than a small/ power forward. Let's be very clear, I'm not saying Lebron is trash. I never have. I just don't rate him as highly as some. Yes Kobe's resume, his history, isn't flawless. But neither is LeBron's. I think I'll give Kobe the edge of LeBron in the mentality department.

As for close out games, Lebron's is better but not hugely so. 42 - 15 vs 33 - 16. But as I keep saying a fair number of those were in a trash Eastern Conference. It's not the advantage you imply it is

Also I"m not sure it works to imply that Kobe having Phil Jackson as his coach is some sort of cheat code and gifts him an advantage Lebron never had. Quite frankly, given LeBron's history with coaches, it's more than unfair

 

[AnonymousFan]

 

[DarthFed]

It’s hard to believe that was the best trade on the table for the Celtics. George is always hurt and far from a superstar at this point when healthy.

 

[Murat B.]

Why? They did not give up Brown for Giannis but they do for Paul George?.
I am not feeling this for Boston.

 

[DarthFed]

Why? They did not give up Brown for Giannis but they do for Paul George?.
I am not feeling this for Boston.

They tried to get Giannis for Brown and 2 first round picks. Instead they settle for George and just get 2 firsts and 2 seconds.

 

[DarthFed]

Also they can’t get out of Paul George’s contract until the end of 2027-28 season as he has player options the next two years. And he is not a max player anymore…bizarre move for Boston. I’d have almost just waited until the trade deadline next year instead of that.

 

[Federberg]

what???

 

[DarthFed]

On top of that they trade him to their rival who just punked them in the playoffs. Philly has a serious squad. I really don’t think Embiid will ever be fully fit and healthy for a playoff run but even with him at 50-75% that’s a very scary team now.

 

[the AntiPusher]

what???

You called it.. Congrats.. you said the relationship had be severed and they were going to move him.. I cant recall Boston helping Philly ever. Makes no sense..

 

[DarthFed]

Bro…Lakers are being run by Adolph Rupp at this point

 

[the AntiPusher]

They tried to get Giannis for Brown and 2 first round picks. Instead they settle for George and just get 2 firsts and 2 seconds.

They could have gotten a better deal.. that's like trading a Bently for a Ford escape

 

[kskate2]

W/o Jaylen, who's going to run the greenmen when Tatum is hurt or out? They can't possibly be expecting Paul to cover that gap

 

[the AntiPusher]

Also they can’t get out of Paul George’s contract until the end of 2027-28 season as he has player options the next two years. And he is not a max player anymore…bizarre move for Boston. I’d have almost just waited until the trade deadline next year instead of that.

Paul George contract has ruin the clippers and made OKC NBA champions and a contender for the next ten years.. I would think they would send PG13 back to the West..

 

[kskate2]

View attachment 10954
Bro…Lakers are being run by Adolph Rupp at this point

they all need an afternoon at the tanning salon pronto

 

[the AntiPusher]

W/o Jaylen, who's going to run the greenmen when Tatum is hurt or out? They can't possibly be expecting Paul to cover that gap

He will get moved.. Boston is rebuilding with the new ownership. Jalen Brown talked his way off a legendary franchise to go to Philly.. The Knicks are back in the NBA Eastern conference final vs the Raptors.. there is nothing can stop this.

 

[the AntiPusher]

If I hear Go New York GO one more time..