What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

brokenshoelace

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Serious question about Lebanon. It's clear that the Lebanese government has no love for Hezbollah, and would love nothing more than to get rid of them. Is there a reason that the Lebanese government doesn't work in secret with the Israeli government/ intelligence services to rid Lebanon of these people. I appreciate that they're embedded deep amongst civilians, but in this day and age with modern technology, haven't we reached a point where this. might be feasible?

The Lebanese government has been more or less installed by the US/Israel. They work for the interest of Israel way more than the interests of Lebanon. There is no "secret" collusion. It's out in the open. To be clear, this is not a conspiracy or anything. It's just how things are.

The issue is, while most have no love for Hezbollah, and understandably so, they remain the only deterrent in the face of Israel, which has now occupied some 20% of the country, destroyed the entire south (hospitals, schools, businesses, etc...) and as always, are openly declaring they will not be leaving "for the foreseeable future" which means they will occupy the country, again. Israeli drones are operating in Lebanese skies, including Beirut, 24/7, and the Israelis pretty much strike any time they want with zero repercussions despite the "ceasefire." The problem is, after the ceasefire of November 2024, Israel continued to strike Lebanon at will, and Hezbollah did not retaliate for 15 months (until Iran was struck in March of this year). That ceasefire only meant that Beirut would be spared, in essence. The recent ceasefire has been much of the same. This time however, Hezbollah is fighting back since their inactivity after the first ceasefire got them nowhere. I'm far from a Hezbollah supporter politically, but you guys need to understand that in the face of Israel, they have been a undeniable deterrent. Their operations led to the liberation of the south after 18 years of occupation in 2000, and their victory in 2006 kept Israel at bay for nearly 20 years.

Internally, Hezbollah has been a nightmare on every level. But as a resistance, their impact has been undeniable. Don't fall for the Western propaganda. The word "terrorist" isn't looked at in the same lens around here. The West portrays terrorism in a caricatural way tailored towards paranoid white people. Here, we realize that what Israel, the West, and other imperial forces do on a daily basis is also terrorism, and I'd argue on a much larger scale.

So this is way more than just "the devil you know." It's flat out not wanting to be occupied by a country that has done nothing but kill and destroy Lebanon for decades. The amount of massacres Israel has committed in Lebanon, from 1979 onwards, trounces any damage Hezbollah may have caused. Israel is very much also the devil Lebanese people know, and that's why the majority refuses it. They are actively saying they want to implement the Gaza doctrine in the south, and they are. It's ethnic cleansing directed at Lebanese Shia.

I understand that your outlook on this is influenced by Western whitewashing, but you need to realize that the issue isn't that Lebanese people don't trust Israel. It's that they know exactly what Israel is. Of course, the dehumanization of Arabs by the West means that what is happening in Gaza is some complicated issue to some of you guys. For those who actually pay attention to what's happening, it is the worst crime of the 21st century committed by a racist, genocidal regime, and most are terrified it will happen here.
 
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brokenshoelace

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So I wonder, are some of you guys willfully oblivious to the above? Do you just not care? Does this kind of thing not get shown in the West? Are you in support of it? Do you think it's a "complicated" issue? I'm honestly curious.
 

brokenshoelace

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So when Arabs and minorities use the word racist to describe how the West views them, you guys take issue with that. But when a genocide has been live streamed in 4k for nearly 3 years now, and at best you talk about it like some complicated piece of the geopolitical puzzle, without being absolutely horrified, how else would you explain it? Ukraine was attacked and all of a sudden Ukraine flags are everywhere, in every discipline, with Russia being banned left right and center. Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed and they're met with indifference and/or cheerleading. Of course that doesn't apply to everyone, but the fact that people are split on this is astounding in and of itself. Then of course, there is the "Judeo-Christian values" crowd...
 

brokenshoelace

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No they’re not, that’s right, and thankfully. But they are protected coming into our countries and they’re protected in our countries when they commit crimes. We must be very wary of a massive influx of Muslims coming into the West, and yet the governments seem unperturbed about this..

Aha...
 

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Thank you for all the info. I think that's why it's more important than ever to keep channels open between people and avoid the media filtering and propaganda.
 

Federberg

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The Lebanese government has been more or less installed by the US/Israel. They work for the interest of Israel way more than the interests of Lebanon. There is no "secret" collusion. It's out in the open. To be clear, this is not a conspiracy or anything. It's just how things are.

The issue is, while most have no love for Hezbollah, and understandably so, they remain the only deterrent in the face of Israel, which has now occupied some 20% of the country, destroyed the entire south (hospitals, schools, businesses, etc...) and as always, are openly declaring they will not be leaving "for the foreseeable future" which means they will occupy the country, again. Israeli drones are operating in Lebanese skies, including Beirut, 24/7, and the Israelis pretty much strike any time they want with zero repercussions despite the "ceasefire." The problem is, after the ceasefire of November 2024, Israel continued to strike Lebanon at will, and Hezbollah did not retaliate for 15 months (until Iran was struck in March of this year). That ceasefire only meant that Beirut would be spared, in essence. The recent ceasefire has been much of the same. This time however, Hezbollah is fighting back since their inactivity after the first ceasefire got them nowhere. I'm far from a Hezbollah supporter politically, but you guys need to understand that in the face of Israel, they have been a undeniable deterrent. Their operations led to the liberation of the south after 18 years of occupation in 2000, and their victory in 2006 kept Israel at bay for nearly 20 years.

Internally, Hezbollah has been a nightmare on every level. But as a resistance, their impact has been undeniable. Don't fall for the Western propaganda. The word "terrorist" isn't looked at in the same lens around here. The West portrays terrorism in a caricatural way tailored towards paranoid white people. Here, we realize that what Israel, the West, and other imperial forces do on a daily basis is also terrorism, and I'd argue on a much larger scale.

So this is way more than just "the devil you know." It's flat out not wanting to be occupied by a country that has done nothing but kill and destroy Lebanon for decades. The amount of massacres Israel has committed in Lebanon, from 1979 onwards, trounces any damage Hezbollah may have caused. Israel is very much also the devil Lebanese people know, and that's why the majority refuses it. They are actively saying they want to implement the Gaza doctrine in the south, and they are. It's ethnic cleansing directed at Lebanese Shia.

I understand that your outlook on this is influenced by Western whitewashing, but you need to realize that the issue isn't that Lebanese people doesn't trust Israel. It's that they know exactly what Israel is. Of course, the dehumanization of Arabs by the West means that what is happening in Gaza is some complicated issue to some of you guys. For those who actually pay attention to what's happening, it is the worst crime of the 21st century committed by a racist, genocidal regime, and most are terrified it will happen here.
thanks for this, it fits. Lebanese people are some of the most entrepreneurial in the world. Look around Africa and you see wealthy Lebanese families with businesses that are critical for African economies. An example of this are the Chagoury's in Nigeria, they have a huge land reclamation project that has extended Lagos out into the sea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eko_Atlantic

Same thing in Mexico, I give you Carlos Slim. I say this, because it's always struck me as strange that a diaspora so successful and powerful would normally have elevated their home country if there wasn't a guiding hand frustrating such efforts, so what you say makes complete sense. It is tragic because it seems to me that Lebanon should be a jewel of wealth and success. As integrated as the Lebanese diaspora are in the countries that they reside in, I find it hard to believe that they would want to do nothing for Lebanon itself. And while I occasionally hear of griping and jealousy from Africans about the success of the Lebanese diaspora, they make every effort to integrate in the countries they reside in. In fact it's often almost impossible to tell that they are part of an expat community, they would be the first to argue strongly that they come from the countries they reside in. They are GOOD people.

My personal view regarding Israel is that it has a right to exist, but it is clear that the West is paralysed by holocaust guilt. This is clear. And I think that's fine, but it shouldn't mean that any actions by Israel suffer no criticism. This is the terrible terrible error that has been made. We are all observing the adjustments of both Germany and Japan to set aside the paralytic guilt both countries have for their behaviour in World War 2, and to become "normal" countries again. Becoming more responsible for their own defence is the first step in this journey. The reason I bring this up is that as these changes are supported, it is right and fitting that other aspects of the past will need to be consigned to history. One of the most important being that the collective guilt the world has for what was done to European Jews should be contextualised. That was then, and this is now. It doesn't mean that Israel should be granted the freedom to prosecute atrocities with impunity (indeed Israel is the only country I know of where blatant racism is overlooked, some of the treatment of Ethiopian Jews in Israel makes me shudder). This is a difficult adjustment to make, but it's clear that the younger generation have picked up the gauntlet. Yes they are aware of history, but they SEE what Israel is doing now, and they are appalled. Rightly so. I think it's going to take the current generation of Western leadership to go into retirement, but the time is coming when Israel will no longer get the support it currently enjoys. That doesn't mean I want or would advocate retaliation. But they will be forced eventually, probably by economic isolation, to stop their acquisition of land. I think it will happen, unfortunately I think it will take another few decades before the momentum towards real justice occurs.
 
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So when Arabs and minorities use the word racist to describe how the West views them, you guys take issue with that. But when a genocide has been live streamed in 4k for nearly 3 years now, and at best you talk about it like some complicated piece of the geopolitical puzzle, without being absolutely horrified, how else would you explain it? Ukraine was attacked and all of a sudden Ukraine flags are everywhere, in every discipline, with Russia being banned left right and center. Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed and they're met with indifference and/or cheerleading. Of course that doesn't apply to everyone, but the fact that people are split on this is astounding in and of itself. Then of course, there is the "Judeo-Christian values" crowd...
I hear you, but there's a reason for that. Terrorist attacks have happened. In the UK, any challenge to the Mal-actions of Muslims is stamped down by our government. Their rationale is that because Muslims in our society would react violently to criticism to keep the peace, those complaining are suppressed. This creates a powerful hostile feedback loop and just makes matters worse. An unfortunate by-product of that is that anything bad happening to Muslims in the Middle East are assumed to be because of the same sorts of activities experienced in Europe. Of course this is simplistic and wrong, but humans are humans. Without research the narrative is unchallenged
 
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So when Arabs and minorities use the word racist to describe how the West views them, you guys take issue with that. But when a genocide has been live streamed in 4k for nearly 3 years now, and at best you talk about it like some complicated piece of the geopolitical puzzle, without being absolutely horrified, how else would you explain it? Ukraine was attacked and all of a sudden Ukraine flags are everywhere, in every discipline, with Russia being banned left right and center. Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed and they're met with indifference and/or cheerleading. Of course that doesn't apply to everyone, but the fact that people are split on this is astounding in and of itself. Then of course, there is the "Judeo-Christian values" crowd...
I'm curious to know what your view is on Iran. Not the current conflict, but just in general, their relationship to Hezbollah, the animosity towards Israel, their impact on Lebanon. And if you would, how does that compare to your thinking about the GCC?
 

brokenshoelace

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I'm curious to know what your view is on Iran. Not the current conflict, but just in general, their relationship to Hezbollah, the animosity towards Israel, their impact on Lebanon. And if you would, how does that compare to your thinking about the GCC?

From a Lebanese perspective, there can be no doubt that Iran has had a strong influence on Lebanese politics, and largely negative. After Hezbollah's shocking victory in the 2006 war with Israel, they (meaning Hezbollah) grew more powerful than ever, and the way they ruled (no other way to put it. Yes, it was technically a democracy and the parliament was formed of deputies from all political parties but whatever Hezbollah wanted they got, and at times through the power of the sword, which they never really needed to yield...its mere presence was enough) was extremely heavy handed. Of course that doesn't begin to explain the struggle that Lebanon was facing since rampant corruption dated back decades, way before Hezbollah was even formed, and continued without ever looking back, with every party doing its fair share to contribute. Many made Iran the scapegoat as their unwavering backing of Hezbollah only allowed the latter to grow stronger, but as far as daily life of the ordinary citizen goes, not much had changed. I state the last part because the West can sometimes have a caricatural outlook on things, especially with media terms like "Hezbollah stronghold" and whatnot. In reality, daily life was the usual melting pot (not using this term in any romantic way, it just is what it is). Lebanon is by far the most "westernized" (for better or worse, usually both) country in the Middle East and remained as such. Politically and economically though, things were a complete mess but to blame that strictly on Iran would be an absolute joke, given that Saudi affiliated parties, and Western affiliated parties robbed the country blind, culminating in the 2019 economic crisis in which people literally lost all their bank savings (another topic for another day).

Where it gets complicated, and this is what you guys need to understand, is that Hezbollah's growing power (especially on the military front) also gave many of their supporters (we're talking roughly a quarter of the country here) and even some of their non supporters some relief that Israel was going to be kept at bay, at least for a while. Everyone knew it was only matter of time before another war broke out, since that 2006 defeat was a huge blow for Israel and they were never going to let it slide. I don't think many of you fully grasp what Israel is, its history, what Zionism is (seriously, a quick glance at the Wikipedia page is enough to make you wonder how is that even allowed to exist. It's straight up Nazi shit), so people here were always terrified of them, and rightfully so, given its bloody history, of which Lebanon was repeatedly a victim. So yes, while another war was always inevitable (and I disagreed, strategically, with Hezbollah's decision to join in back in 2023, even though I think Israel was never going to pass up on the opportunity to strike regardless), and no, you're not going to categorically defeat a military superpower like Israel, but that's not what a resistance's job is anyway.

From a pure politics perspective, I cannot be a Hezbollah supporter, or any other right wing group, especially a religious one, Muslim or otherwise. I also cannot be a supporter of their practices, to put it mildly, which have undoubtedly included political assassinations (that's pretty much an open secret), violence against protesters, etc... They have definitely ruled through fear at times, but in the interest of fairness, they have done so mainly in areas under their control. Lebanon is a very religiously diverse country, however small it might be, so non-Shia Muslim areas were devoid of Hezbollah presence.

Problem is, there is a boogeyman called Israel, and Hezbollah has proven to be the only one remotely capable of standing up to them. I know many out West think that Israel mainly retaliates but that couldn't be further from the truth. Even post the 2000 liberation of the south of Lebanon, Israel continued to violate Lebanese air space on a literal daily basis, have continued to occupy the Lebanese Chebaa farms, have refused to properly define the borders (largely because of potential oil drilling that they want to claim for themselves), etc...

It's getting quite wordy but Lebanon is such a complicated country and even with all the above, it's hard to fully explain things without a deep historical dive into the Lebanese civil war and the history of Israeli aggressions but I'll refrain for now.

I will say this re: Hezbollah and Iran. Where things went wrong as far as public perception not just in Lebanon but in the Arab world, was the way they handled the Syrian civil war. Hezbollah's direct involvement helped tip the scale back in Bashar's favor, but doing so involved committing atrocities over there. Strategically, their intervention was easy to understand: if Bashar falls, Iran loses a major strategic ally and its main bridge in moving weapons and other supplies to Hezbollah. So Hezbollah's very existence was at stake. From a moral standpoint, what happened was unforgivable and Hezbollah's reputation (and by proxy, Iran) has never recovered. They lost a huge amount of popularity and it was no more than what they deserved, especially when you're batting for a murderous dictator like Bashar. There's also the fact that the Syrian civil war stretched Hezbollah extremely thin. Yes, they got the desired result but it cost them casualties, resources, and most importantly, left them exposed to Israeli intelligence, which gathered crucial intel (not to mention Israeli air strikes against Hezbollah in Syria).

To sum up, I think Iran is a very politically shrewd country. My views on their relationship with Hezbollah is that it's hard to deny them credit for helping Lebanon in its wars with Israel, particularly with regards to the 2000 liberation of the south after 18 years of occupation, but obviously they weren't doing that out of the goodness of their hearts and everything comes at a price. The flipside is the way they operated politically was at times, doubtlessly tyrannical. For the longest time I absolutely loathed them with every fiber of my being, but right now, I actually believe Lebanon needs them.

Re: Iran vs the GCC, there is a predominant view among the West and its supporters, even over here in Lebanon, that the GCC are the good guys or at least, the lesser of the two evils. Largely because they've allied themselves with the West and have fully embraced the capitalistic hegemony. This often lends them a more "civilized" label. But take the UAE for example, and its modern slave labor practices, its funding of a genocide in Sudan, or Saudi's brutal war on Yemen, or how both have completely abandoned the Palestinian cause and have been instrumental in growing Israel's dominance over the region, and I just can't subscribe to that theory. The GCC have also caused its fair share of damage to Lebanon despite the financial aid, most recently in installing a Saudi puppet as president who is serving Israeli interests first and foremost. Ultimately I think they're just as bad as Iran on a moral level, except not nearly as politically savvy.

One last point I want to explain is you guys have to understand, among Shia Muslims, Hezbollah have been extremely popular, despite the fact that they completely crushed any form of dissent/criticism/etc... and were harshest in their measures against their very own. Again, I have to reiterate that politically and economically they've been an unmitigated disaster. However, for the longest time Shia Muslims were extremely marginalized, poor, neglected, etc... and suffered a great deal at the hands of the Israelis (unfortunately what's happening now is primarily meant to bring back those days, and it's already been successful as they've lost their homes, businesses, infrastructure, institutions, etc...). So Hezbollah's role in liberating the south meant that they were seen as complete heroes among Shias. Terrorist or not, and again, the West can conveniently label whomever it wants of anything it chooses, you have to realize that Hezbollah fighters are just people defending their towns, villages, cities, homes and families. They are people with daily jobs, lives, families, etc... They're not some bearded boogeymen living in terrorist-only headquarters. Keep that in mind any time you hear things like "Hezbollah stronghold" because that usually just means civilian buildings and people with lives and families. I strongly despise Hezbollah leadership and politics, but again, those who are actually resisting are just people who want to protect their land and people, and when push comes to shove, couldn't care less about Iran and global politics.
 
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Federberg

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From a Lebanese perspective, there can be no doubt that Iran has had a strong influence on Lebanese politics, and largely negative. After Hezbollah's shocking victory in the 2006 war with Israel, they (meaning Hezbollah) grew more powerful than ever, and the way they ruled (no other way to put it. Yes, it was technically a democracy and the parliament was formed of deputies from all political parties but whatever Hezbollah wanted they got, and at times through the power of the sword, which they never really needed to yield...its mere presence was enough) was extremely heavy handed. Of course that doesn't begin to explain the struggle that Lebanon was facing since rampant corruption dated back decades, way before Hezbollah was even formed, and continued without ever looking back, with every party doing its fair share to contribute. Many made Iran the scapegoat as their unwavering backing of Hezbollah only allowed the latter to grow stronger, but as far as daily life of the ordinary citizen goes, not much had changed. I state the last part because the West can sometimes have a caricatural outlook on things, especially with media terms like "Hezbollah stronghold" and whatnot. In reality, daily life was the usual melting pot (not using this term in any romantic way, it just is what it is). Lebanon is by far the most "westernized" (for better or worse, usually both) country in the Middle East and remained as such. Politically and economically though, things were a complete mess but to blame that strictly on Iran would be an absolute joke, given that Saudi affiliated parties, and Western affiliated parties robbed the country blind, culminating in the 2019 economic crisis in which people literally lost all their bank savings (another topic for another day).

Where it gets complicated, and this is what you guys need to understand, is that Hezbollah's growing power (especially on the military front) also gave many of their supporters (we're talking roughly a quarter of the country here) and even some of their non supporters some relief that Israel was going to be kept at bay, at least for a while. Everyone knew it was only matter of time before another war broke out, since that 2006 defeat was a huge blow for Israel and they were never going to let it slide. I don't think many of you fully grasp what Israel is, its history, what Zionism is (seriously, a quick glance at the Wikipedia page is enough to make you wonder how is that even allowed to exist. It's straight up Nazi shit), so people here were always terrified of them, and rightfully so, given its bloody history, of which Lebanon was repeatedly a victim. So yes, while another war was always inevitable (and I disagreed, strategically, with Hezbollah's decision to join in back in 2023, even though I think Israel was never going to pass up on the opportunity to strike regardless), and no, you're not going to categorically defeat a military superpower like Israel, but that's not what a resistance's job is anyway.

From a pure politics perspective, I cannot be a Hezbollah supporter, or any other right wing group, especially a religious one, Muslim or otherwise. I also cannot be a supporter of their practices, to put it mildly, which have undoubtedly included political assassinations (that's pretty much an open secret), violence against protesters, etc... They have definitely ruled through fear at times, but in the interest of fairness, they have done so mainly in areas under their control. Lebanon is a very religiously diverse country, however small it might be, so non-Shia Muslim areas were devoid of Hezbollah presence.

Problem is, there is a boogeyman called Israel, and Hezbollah has proven to be the only one capable of remotely standing up to them. I know many out West think that Israel mainly retaliates but that couldn't be further from the truth. Even post the 2000 liberation of the south of Lebanon, Israel continued to violate Lebanese air space on a literal daily basis, have continued to occupy the Lebanese Chebaa farms, have refused to properly define the borders (largely because of potential oil drilling that they want to claim for themselves), etc...

It's getting quite wordy but Lebanon is such a complicated country and even with all the above, it's hard to fully explain things without a deep historical dive into the Lebanese civil war and the history of Israeli aggressions but I'll refrain for now.

I will say this re: Hezbollah and Iran. Where things went wrong as far as public perception not just in Lebanon but in the Arab world, was the way they handled the Syrian civil war. Hezbollah's direct involvement helped tip the scale back in Bashar's favor, but doing so involved committing atrocities over there. Strategically, their intervention was easy to understand: if Bashar falls, Iran loses a major strategic ally its main bridge in moving weapons and other supplies to Hezbollah. So Hezbollah's very existence was at stake. From a moral standpoint, what happened was unforgivable and Hezbollah's reputation (and by proxy, Iran) has never recovered. They lost a huge amount of popularity and it was no more than what they deserved, especially when you're batting for a murderous dictator like Bashar. There's also the fact that the Syrian civil war stretched Hezbollah extremely thin. Yes, they got the desired result but it cost them casualties, resources, and most importantly, left them exposed to Israeli intelligence, which gathered crucial intel (not to mention Israeli air strikes against Hezbollah in Syria).

To sum up, I think Iran is a very politically shrewd country. My views on their relationship with Hezbollah is that it's hard to deny them credit for helping Lebanon in its wars with Israel, particularly with regards to the 2000 liberation of the south after 18 years of occupation, but obviously they weren't doing that out of the goodness of their hearts and everything comes at a price. The flipside is the way they operated politically was at times, doubtlessly tyrannical. For the longest time I absolutely loathed them with every fiber of my being, but right now, I actually believe Lebanon needs them.

Re: Iran vs the GCC, there is a predominant view among the West and its supporters, even over here in Lebanon, that the GCC are the good guys or at least, the lesser of the two evils. Largely because they've allied themselves with the West and have fully embraced the capitalistic hegemony. This often lends them a more "civilized" label. But take the UAE for example, and its modern slave labor practices, its funding of a genocide in Sudan, or Saudi's brutal war on Yemen, or how both have completely abandoned the Palestinian cause and have been instrumental in growing Israel's dominance over the region, and I just can't subscribe to that theory. The GCC have also caused its fair share of damage to Lebanon despite the financial aid, most recently in installing a Saudi puppet as president who is serving Israeli interests first and foremost. Ultimately I think they're just as bad as Iran on a moral level, except not nearly as politically savvy.

One last point I want to explain is you guys have to understand, among Shia Muslims, Hezbollah have been extremely popular, despite the fact that they completely crushed any form of dissent/criticism/etc... and were harshest in their measures against their very own. Again, I have to reiterate that politically and economically they've been an unmitigated disaster. However, for the longest time Shia Muslims were extremely marginalized, poor, neglected, etc... and suffered a great deal at the hands of the Israelis (unfortunately what's happening now is primarily meant to bring back those days, and it's already been successful as they've lost their homes, businesses, infrastructure, institutions, etc...). So Hezbollah's role in liberating the south meant that they were seen as complete heroes among Shias. Terrorist or not, and again, the West can conveniently label whomever it wants of anything it chooses, you have to realize that Hezbollah fighters are just people defending their towns, villages, cities, homes and families. They are people with daily jobs, lives, families, etc... They're not some bearded boogeymen living in terrorist-only headquarters. Keep that in mind any time you hear things like "Hezbollah stronghold" because that usually just means civilian buildings and people with lives and families. I strongly despise Hezbollah leadership and politics, but again, those who are actually resisting are just people who want to protect their land and people, and when push comes to shove, couldn't care less about Iran and global politics.
Very interesting and frighteningly complex. I had a feeling your perception would match my intuition that the GCC are not really how they are represented in Western media. Except, who Saudi are rightly perceived as nouveau riche, hypocritical, incompetent, and intolerant. But you were right to focus more on UAE, they're the ones that are most misunderstood in the West because of Dubai. However I think more effort needs to be made to humanise the plight of Lebanon and the Lebanese. Too often it's the Palestinians, the Palestinians! When these anti-Israel protesters in the West grow up and understand this truth, it'll be much tougher to maintain the narrative
 

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This is proof that these apps are spying on us. I don’t recall ever having a clip about Lebanon come up before!

 

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I remember an interview with Christoph Waltz, the Austrian/German actor who portrayed the SS Colonel Hans Landa in the amazing movie Inglorious Bastards. The interviewer was trying to understand how Waltz could portray evil so good and capture the character. Waltz just said something like "He was not evil" . The interviewer did not understand. Surely an SS Colonel like Landa was an evil person, look at what he did. I think Waltz was bored trying to explain to this person that what you may think about evil is one thing, but to this Colonel, what he was doing was good and he was not an evil person. Once you understand that, you are not trying to play an evil person, you are just playing a person.
 

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My personal view regarding Israel is that it has a right to exist,

I'm always curious regarding this particular sentence mainly because we've heard it a lot over the last 3 years. I find it odd because we don't say that about any other country. Why do you believe it has a "right" to exist? This is by no means antagonizing to be clear, I'm genuinely asking. The reason I find it odd is because Israel exists. Why do we have to reiterate the above?
 

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Christians who think these guys are their allies are in a clueless league of their own.
 

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I'm always curious regarding this particular sentence mainly because we've heard it a lot over the last 3 years. I find it odd because we don't say that about any other country. Why do you believe it has a "right" to exist? This is by no means antagonizing to be clear, I'm genuinely asking. The reason I find it odd is because Israel exists. Why do we have to reiterate the above?
that's a valid question, and I understand why it needs to be asked. From a Western perspective, I freely admit my perception bias, when Iran, and Islamic groups, and anti-semites state that Israel is an illegitimate state or should be wiped out, or exists on stolen land, it forces the question. Should Israel exist as a country? This might be extremely effective PR, of course, conferring victim status to justify future crimes. No other country or nation has that question asked of it, except perhaps the Kurds?
 

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In case you're wondering who owns the media.

there was a time I thought she was a legitimate journalist, providing objective facts about US politics. And perhaps she was. But no longer. I am as disappointed in her politics as I am in Niall Ferguson's excuse making for Trump.
 

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Apr 14, 2013
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that's a valid question, and I understand why it needs to be asked. From a Western perspective, I freely admit my perception bias, when Iran, and Islamic groups, and anti-semites state that Israel is an illegitimate state or should be wiped out, or exists on stolen land, it forces the question. Should Israel exist as a country? This might be extremely effective PR, of course, conferring victim status to justify future crimes. No other country or nation has that question asked of it, except perhaps the Kurds?

The issue is, Israel does exist on stolen land though, and the whole concept predates holocaust guilt and the holocaust itself. The decision to colonize Palestine took place in 1917 in the Balfour Declaration. Then of course came the Nakba of 1948 where nearly a million Palestinians were expelled, 400 villages were destroyed, and countless massacres took place (with Israeli settlers/soldiers on video in interviews talking in great detail about the atrocities they committed, and proudly of course). This is the history of how Israel came to be.

The other problem is, they haven't stopped since. They've been gradually expanding and suffocating Palestinians since, with increasingly brutal measures. I know it's hard for a many people in the West to come to terms with that but unfortunately, there is no conspiracy here. This is how Israel was created.

The even bigger problem is that those measures are not some Netanyahu specific policies. This is literally what Zionist ideology is. Just listen to any far right Israeli minister speak, or really just the general population...that is what that country is.