Nadalites – Rafa Nadal Talk

[DarthFed]

I watched the documentary yesterday…I know it’s probably hard for some of you to believe that I have to admit I thought it was excellent. These sport documentaries starting with the Last Dance do a great job bouncing between the past and present. As a non-fan I was surprised when Rafa brought in Moya but this gave a lot more insight into why that was necessary and how things were complicated with Toni.

And seeing Rafa get frustrated by his limitations in practice sessions near the end and being so harsh on himself was a shock but also brought a human element to him as he rarely had that negative energy while playing.

And lastly, in watching it you get a sense that what drove Rafa to retire was simply not being able to compete as hard as he used to. The realization that he can’t run down every ball or even try to. This is different from most great athletes, Roger included, that retire because they are no longer able to play at a high level. For Rafa it was that he no longer could compete as fiercely as he once had.

 

[the AntiPusher]

He got older and more burdened by injuries.

But when you say, “Nadal's numbers look a lot better due to his dominance of one surface/slam,” well you could almost be referring to Novak! Remember, he won 14 of his GS titles on hards - and nobody could dispute that the GS and MS surfaces favoured both Roger and Novak - but only the same number of USO titles, though Rafa played there far fewer times. Bear in mind that Rafa and Roger brawled together without Novak for more than half a decade - and Rafa actually beat Roger on hards as a 17 year old in 2004 - so when Novak finally grew a pair and quit quitting when matches got too tough for him, he faced a Roger who was certainly into the long endgame of his career, and Rafa who was skipping large chunks of his season through injuries.

That’s called, “opportunity”.

Here's the deal. Rafa is the Kobe Bryant or Lebron James of tennis somewhat.. Jordan fans always alarmed that someone else could be mentioned in the breathe. We witnessed Uncle Toni and team Nadal architect the game to counter Roger's greatest.. When Rafa chased down and took over control of their H2H, Novak came after Rafa the same way but it was years afterward because Roger treated Novak as the bald headed stepchild before he began to leave his prime. No way Prime Roger looses those matches especially at SW19 to Novak when he was in his 30s. Rafa dealt with both of them while battling injuries that he NEVER wanted to be his excuse. Yes Novak has the all time GS titles and an numerous other stats. Rafa overcame more while winning 75 percent of his 19 RG appearances. this Debate will NEVER end although the truth is apparent.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I watched the documentary yesterday…I know it’s probably hard for some of you to believe that I have to admit I thought it was excellent. These sport documentaries starting with the Last Dance do a great job bouncing between the past and present. As a non-fan I was surprised when Rafa brought in Moya but this gave a lot more insight into why that was necessary and how things were complicated with Toni.

And seeing Rafa get frustrated by his limitations in practice sessions near the end and being so harsh on himself was a shock but also brought a human element to him as he rarely had that negative energy while playing.

And lastly, in watching it you get a sense that what drove Rafa to retire was simply not being able to compete as hard as he used to. The realization that he can’t run down every ball or even try to. This is different from most great athletes, Roger included, that retire because they are no longer able to play at a high level. For Rafa it was that he no longer could compete as fiercely as he once had.

Too bad the last year he filmed it was his final chase of RG..It felt like he was going to his own funeral if that makes sense.

 

[Kieran]

Too bad the last year he filmed it was his final chase of RG..It felt like he was going to his own funeral if that makes sense.

I’ve seen videos of Rafa now, and he looks fifty. His body is more ravaged by wear and tear and injury than anyone’s. He’s put himself through the most extreme punishment in order to compete. I heard a quote from the documentary where he says something like, “I’m not a winner, I’m a competitor”, and it’s a perfect mantra for any youngster to live by.

But I think when he was in his late twenties, his body-age was 10 years older…

 

[the AntiPusher]

I’ve seen videos of Rafa now, and he looks fifty. His body is more ravaged by wear and tear and injury than anyone’s. He’s put himself through the most extreme punishment in order to compete. I heard a quote from the documentary where he says something like, “I’m not a winner, I’m a competitor”, and it’s a perfect mantra for any youngster to live by.

But I think when he was in his late twenties, his body-age was 10 years older…

So true.. that's the sacrifice to be the greatest RG champion EVER. He was a warrior.. the 2022 championship at RG was probably his toughest struggle. I wont ruin it for those who havent seen the DocuSeries.

 

[Kieran]

So true.. that's the sacrifice to be the greatest RG champion EVER. He was a warrior.. the 2022 championship at RG was probably his toughest struggle. I wont ruin it for those who havent seen the DocuSeries.

He was looking good for Wimbledon too, until he got [spoiler alert] injured. Was never fit again…

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

He was looking good for Wimbledon too, until he got [spoiler alert] injured. Was never fit again…

The beginning of the end was the injury at Indian Wells. People forget that Rafa had a poor clay season leading up to the French Open win.

Rafa was never going to win that Wimbledon. He was not going to beat Djokovic in a final. If this was 2010 or 2011, I'd give him a chance, but not in 2022.

In hindsight, Rafa should have probably skipped Wimbledon and gave a run at the US Open, knowing that Djokovic was not allowed to be there.

 

[Murat B.]

Watched the two episodes, two more to go. Enjoying it.

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

Happy 40th birthday, Rafael Nadal!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Yesterday I watched Nadal on Netflix. I recommend it to everyone. Meanwhile, you discover so many things that perhaps only insiders knew about Rafa's physical condition. In particular, high -level players should watch it and draw lessons from it.

 

[the AntiPusher]

The beginning of the end was the injury at Indian Wells. People forget that Rafa had a poor clay season leading up to the French Open win.

Rafa was never going to win that Wimbledon. He was not going to beat Djokovic in a final. If this was 2010 or 2011, I'd give him a chance, but not in 2022.

In hindsight, Rafa should have probably skipped Wimbledon and gave a run at the US Open, knowing that Djokovic was not allowed to be there.

Rafa overplayed his hand.. remember he won Acapulco on hard courts the prior weeks earlier.. Rafa got a bit overconfident with early season string of hard court championships..Yes he had a rough clay season due to the ripped stomach muscles vs Alcaraz at IW . He played Fritz with the injury which was not wise..All this he wasnt going to defeat Djoker or win Wimbledon is pure speculation would you not agree.. I am quite sure you gave Rafa a small chance to defeat Novak in the late fall for that special pandemic RG.. He not only defeated him, he gave Novak his worst ass whipping of his clay court career..

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

Rafa overplayed his hand.. remember he won Acapulco on hard courts the prior weeks earlier.. Rafa got a bit overconfident with early season string of hard court championships..Yes he had a rough clay season due to the ripped stomach muscles vs Alcaraz at IW . He played Fritz with the injury which was not wise..All this he wasnt going to defeat Djoker or win Wimbledon is pure speculation would you not agree.. I am quite sure you gave Rafa a small chance to defeat Novak in the late fall for that special pandemic RG.. He not only defeated him, he gave Novak his worst ass whipping of his clay court career..

Nope, I favored Rafa over Novak in the late fall pandemic RG. That was the last version of Nadal I felt was unplayable. I even had Rafa favored at RG in 2021, but we all know how that went. Any version of Rafa after that was a faded version and certainly beatable (just look at the 2021 Citi Open).

Rafa wasn't going to beat Djokovic on grass or win Wimbledon in 2022. Maybe the 24/25-year-old version in 2010/2011 does it, but the 2022 version was more than a decade past his best on grass.

Rafa should have not played Wimbledon. He got injured because he overplayed. He was already hurt from IW. Should have rested and healed up to make a run at the US Open. No guarantees he wins the US Open (Rafa is beatable by this point), but Rafa has a better chance of winning a US Open with no Djokovic there, than beating Djokovic at Wimbledon.

2022 Rafa is like 1978 Ali. They are still good enough to win in big moments, but you could tell that they were far from their best at that point, and certainly beatable.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Nope, I favored Rafa over Novak in the late fall pandemic RG. That was the last version of Nadal I felt was unplayable. I even had Rafa favored at RG in 2021, but we all know how that went. Any version of Rafa after that was a faded version and certainly beatable (just look at the 2021 Citi Open).

Rafa wasn't going to beat Djokovic on grass or win Wimbledon in 2022. Maybe the 24/25-year-old version in 2010/2011 does it, but the 2022 version was more than a decade past his best on grass.

Rafa should have not played Wimbledon. He got injured because he overplayed. He was already hurt from IW. Should have rested and healed up to make a run at the US Open. No guarantees he wins the US Open (Rafa is beatable by this point), but Rafa has a better chance of winning a US Open with no Djokovic there, than beating Djokovic at Wimbledon.

2022 Rafa is like 1978 Ali. They are still good enough to win in big moments, but you could tell that they were far from their best at that point, and certainly beatable.

Explain 2019 SW19 when Novak wanted the roof close the next day when the match had to be continued from the previous due to rain. That match went late into extra games in the 5th yet it was Sunny outside and the 70s.. Rafa was the better grass court player that season yet you decided to ignore his high level of grass court play.

 

[Kieran]

Explain 2019 SW19 when Novak wanted the roof close the next day when the match had to be continued from the previous due to rain. That match went late into extra games in the 5th yet it was Sunny outside and the 70s.. Rafa was the better grass court player that season yet you decided to ignore his high level of grass court play.

Bingo!

The only thing wrong is that it was 2018. 2019 was the year when 67 year old Roger got as close as two championship points from beating the Modern Sampras on grass, and still took him to a tiebreak in the fifth set, at 12-all.

If Roger was even 4 years younger, that was over in straights…

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Rafa Nadal's documentary is a contender for 2026 Primetime Emmy Awards.

To me "Rafa' isnt a story about victories.Its about the price of victories
More than a documentary about of the greatest tennis players, its a reflection on excellence, purpose and aging

 

[the AntiPusher]

Bingo!

The only thing wrong is that it was 2018. 2019 was the year when 67 year old Roger got as close as two championship points from beating the Modern Sampras on grass, and still took him to a tiebreak in the fifth set, at 12-all.

If Roger was even 4 years younger, that was over in straights…

I was unsure if it was 2018 or 2019..thanks good Sir..

 

[the AntiPusher]

Rafa Nadal's documentary is a contender for 2026 Primetime Emmy Awards.

To me "Rafa' isnt a story about victories.Its about the price of victories
More than a documentary about of the greatest tennis players, its a reflection on excellence, purpose and aging

Agreed it shows the toll it took on his body..I thought about and I get the basis premise of it. It reminds me of the Last Dance..It could have 6 or 8 episodes if he would have just focused on his h2h vs Roger and Novak. Even a non Rafa fan e.g. @DarthFed can appreciate the early and mid career wars between the big 3 were epic battles which had it consequences.

 

[Kieran]

Agreed it shows the toll it took on his body..I thought about and I get the basis premise of it. It reminds me of the Last Dance..It could have 6 or 8 episodes if he would have just focused on his h2h vs Roger and Novak. Even a non Rafa fan e.g. @DarthFed can appreciate the early and mid career wars between the big 3 were epic battles which had it consequences.

Absolutely. It helped others boost their resume but it also robbed us of Rafa at many slams…

 

[the AntiPusher]

Absolutely. It helped others boost their resume but it also robbed us of Rafa at many slams…

Rafa was and still is “the Prince that was Promised”..the Tennis Gods delivered, that’s all this tennis fan could have asked for.

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

2018/2019 version of Rafa was still very good. Not as great as the 2010 peak version, but Rafa's body was still functional enough to handle the rigors of a full schedule, and be competitive. Much better than any version post-French Open 2021, when Rafa's body was broken. I could see it at the Citi Open (just compare his performances at that tournament to the one he had against Sinner at the French Open 2 months earlier... it was night and day). Rafa caught lightning in a bottle in early 2022, and was really lucky to win the French Open (he really should have lost that match to FAA). Rafa's level of play in early 2022, with a broken body, was just not sustainable throughout the entire course of a season. He really needed to take a break after the FO, to heal his body from everything IW onwards. Playing Wimbledon was a mistake, and quite frankly, it cost him a chance at the 23rd slam at the US Open.