Best of 5 at Majors - Women and Men

[Moxie]

The question has come up about women playing Best of 5 at Majors. Also in the conversation is making early rounds of Men's best of 3. Discuss.

 

[Moxie]

This was the latest post from @Jelenafan on the Rafa fans thread, where we started this discussion. Others have also posted thoughts. I suggested we bring the discussion here:

From Jelena fan:

The French Open (circa 1973-75) men played best of three in the first couple or rounds, so Borg played less sets on his first 2 FO Champs. I also seem to recall that when the USO converted to green clay at Forest Hills, circa 1975-77 the mens early rounds were also best of three, though again I think by the 4th round it was best of five. The first year at the new Flushing Meadows , 1978, on hardcourts they also played the first 3 rounds of the USO mens singles best of three. I don't think those men champions are tainted because they played less sets.

So this idea isn't unprecedented. Change and modifications in sports is part and parcel, there was a time when there were no tiebreakers, no night matches, and just a year ago we had line judges in the Majors, way back the defending champ only played in the championship finals the next year, etc, etc,. I LOOOVE the idea that the women would get to play best of five the last few rounds and that it would be the same for both men and women.

 

[Moxie]

I appreciate this historical context in that Bo5 has not always been a thing for every round for the men at Majors. I will also point out that there was a time when women played Bo5 in their YEC, I think. They have done it. Personally, my favorite option is that both men and women play best of 5 throughout the Majors. Every round. But I also know that tennis is endeavoring to shorten viewing time (which I don't think is necessary, but whatever.) In that case, both men and women playing 2/3 for first week is a potential option, then both go to 3/5.

 

[Jelenafan]

I appreciate this historical context in that Bo5 has not always been a thing for every round for the men at Majors. I will also point out that there was a time when women played Bo5 in their YEC, I think. They have done it. Personally, my favorite option is that both men and women play best of 5 throughout the Majors. Every round. But I also know that tennis is endeavoring to shorten viewing time (which I don't think is necessary, but whatever.) In that case, both men and women playing 2/3 for first week is a potential option, then both go to 3/5.

I would think that best of three for the men the first three rounds wouldn't eliminate thrilling matches, if anything not having to conserve energy and with hopefully off days in between I would opine the quality would not suffer at all. It would make scheduling much easier , especially because outside of the show courts in the Majors inclement weather wrecks major havoc the first week of a Slam, with some players getting off that court at 1 or 2 AM or even later. You add night matches, the elimination of line judges in the show courts and logistically it could flow much better. I know some early rounds players come back from 0-2 sets down, but as a tradeoff I'm willing to forego that in round 1 of a Major to get the women equal billing down the line.

It's easier to schedule best of five by the 4th for all with these changes. The women are more than physically fit to go five sets and the Majors could market the hell out of this. Again getting through the earlier rounds easier without sacrificing quality , seems like win/win to me.

 

[Moxie]

I would think that best of three for the men the first three rounds wouldn't eliminate thrilling matches, if anything not having to conserve energy and with hopefully off days in between I would opine the quality would not suffer at all. It would make scheduling much easier , especially because outside of the show courts in the Majors inclement weather wrecks major havoc the first week of a Slam, with some players getting off that court at 1 or 2 AM or even later. You add night matches, the elimination of line judges in the show courts and logistically it could flow much better. I know some early rounds players come back from 0-2 sets down, but as a tradeoff I'm willing to forego that in round 1 of a Major to get the women equal billing down the line.

It's easier to schedule best of five by the 4th for all with these changes. The women are more than physically fit to go five sets and the Majors could market the hell out of this. Again getting through the earlier rounds easier without sacrificing quality , seems like win/win to me.

Without going back through history, I'd be hard pressed to think of a GS winner who might have lost early, had it been best of 3, in recent years. There are some long matches between the undercards, but they don't mostly survive into the 2nd week anyway. And let's not pretend they're mostly that thrilling. An example I've used before, in previous discussions on this topic: I was at the USO, and the day started with Feliciano Lopez playing Pablo Andújar. A match I was interested in, because they are Spaniards that I like, and, let's face it, they are 2 handsome guys. It was the way I got my friend out for the 11am start. But even we moved on to another match after 2 sets. A few hours later, we went for a beer at a bar that overlooked the outer court where they were playing. It was still going on! And even I barely cared anymore...and I'm a tennis nut, and I root for Spaniards.

Point being, I don't think that most would miss the Bo5 early rounds matches. At best, for those who are hoping for more of a mix-up at the top of the men's game, Bo5 favors the top players. You're more likely to see an upset in Bo3. But save the players and best tennis for the 2nd week is an argument.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I am Totally against the changes of playing the best of 3 in the first 3 rounds at Grand Slam level for men
This is Grand Slam not a ATP 1000 tournament it degrades the GS tournament where you have to win 7 matches
Players have to be able to pace themselves at GS level,at be able to bring their best in the 2nd week of a slam.
In regards to women it has long been a big argument that seeing woman get equal pay at GS level they should play the best of 5 set matches.I have no problem with that concept at all.

 

[Jelenafan]

Without going back through history, I'd be hard pressed to think of a GS winner who might have lost early, had it been best of 3, in recent years. There are some long matches between the undercards, but they don't mostly survive into the 2nd week anyway. And let's not pretend they're mostly that thrilling. An example I've used before, in previous discussions on this topic: I was at the USO, and the day started with Feliciano Lopez playing Pablo Andújar. A match I was interested in, because they are Spaniards that I like, and, let's face it, they are 2 handsome guys. It was the way I got my friend out for the 11am start. But even we moved on to another match after 2 sets. A few hours later, we went for a beer at a bar that overlooked the outer court where they were playing. It was still going on! And even I barely cared anymore...and I'm a tennis nut, and I root for Spaniards.

Point being, I don't think that most would miss the Bo5 early rounds matches. At best, for those who are hoping for more of a mix-up at the top of the men's game, Bo5 favors the top players. You're more likely to see an upset in Bo3. But save the players and best tennis for the 2nd week is an argument.

The top seeds have to navigate tough draws with best of three matches practically every day when they play Masters, (3rd round on up) so I think they would schedule accordingly at a Major to be prepped/conditioned to do well from the get go. The huge difference is that they have a day off. And I'm sorry, but there are so many straight set routs of , say, 2-2-2, that a 2-2 rout , would we really miss that 3rd set at that point?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Moxie,

I would be interested to hear your proposal fro women at GS playing 5 sets,as I mentioned previously there has been arguments if they can receive the same money as men,they should play 5 sets.There is also another argument that women's matches would be too boring if they went 5 sets and they dont attract the fans like men do at GS level.

 

[Vince Evert]

Men and women play best 2 of 3 in earlier rounds, and only best of 5 at later rounds. ​

Make the ladies go B05 at least the semi-finals on. The two A.O ones we saw last week was very ordinary.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Men and women play best 2 of 3 in earlier rounds, and only best of 5 at later rounds. ​

Make the ladies go B05 at least the semi-finals on. The two A.O ones we saw last week was very ordinary.

Sorry I am totally against men playing the best of 3 in any earlier rounds of a GS tournament
In regards to ladies I am think they can go five sets from the q/finals

 

[Moxie]

Moxie,

I would be interested to hear your proposal fro women at GS playing 5 sets,as I mentioned previously there has been arguments if they can receive the same money as men,they should play 5 sets.There is also another argument that women's matches would be too boring if they went 5 sets and they dont attract the fans like men do at GS level.

Any notion that women's best of 5 set matches would be too boring sets my hair on fire. I've given you a completely coherent example of why men's best of 5 set matches in early rounds are too boring, too. I'll give you the best example: Isner d. Mahut Wimbledon 2010. That match is famous for being like watching paint dry, combined with a slow-motion version of rubbernecking a car accident. It is famous for changing the TB at Wimbledon, but it was also famously a freak show. Most matches, men's or women's, will never be that boring.

My point is that: Women have great matches in them, too. And they will never get to prove it, if they don't play best 3 of 5. As I said on another thread: Rafa got to prove what a badass he was, because that match wasn't over in two sets. Women should be given the same possibility. Boring matches will be played. But spectacular ones are judged by best 3 of 5, and I say, let women play them, too.

 

[Vince Evert]

If there evolves a new gen of attacking economical-of-strokes players that goes about their tennis the way that Ash Barty plays, then that will be another reason to have BO5 semifinals and finals.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Any notion that women's best of 5 set matches would be too boring sets my hair on fire. I've given you a completely coherent example of why men's best of 5 set matches in early rounds are too boring, too. I'll give you the best example: Isner d. Mahut Wimbledon 2010. That match is famous for being like watching paint dry, combined with a slow-motion version of rubbernecking a car accident. It is famous for changing the TB at Wimbledon, but it was also famously a freak show. Most matches, men's or women's, will never be that boring.

My point is that: Women have great matches in them, too. And they will never get to prove it, if they don't play best 3 of 5. As I said on another thread: Rafa got to prove what a badass he was, because that match wasn't over in two sets. Women should be given the same possibility. Boring matches will be played. But spectacular ones are judged by best 3 of 5, and I say, let women play them, too.

Personally I have no problem with women playing the best of 5 sets,though I am willing to find a middle line and say they begin the best of 5 at q/final level.

 

[Moxie]

Personally I have no problem with women playing the best of 5 sets,though I am willing to find a middle line and say they begin the best of 5 at q/final level.

I'm fine if it starts there, anyway, but I think it has to be done.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I'm fine if it starts there, anyway, but I think it has to be done.

Agree,I have been saying that for years

 

[Kieran]

Never changed the men’s from best of 5 to best of 3, at any stage of a slam, regardless of whether or not they did this in the past. For the women, yes, let’s try it, see how it goes…

 

[the AntiPusher]

Womens best of 5 didn’t work when it was tried previously.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Womens best of 5 didn’t work when it was tried previously.

Wasnt that in the late 90's from memory

 

[Moxie]

Womens best of 5 didn’t work when it was tried previously.

I don't understand what you mean that "it didn't work." Also, was that at Majors?

 

[the AntiPusher]

I don't understand what you mean that "it didn't work." Also, was that at Majors?

I remember a few matches that went 5 sets were pretty good (Seles vs Sabatini) and Graf vs Huber..I really don't remember that it was something that the fans demanded at the time..I could be wrong..just what I vaguely remember.. sorry