Is Jimmy Connors underrated in the scheme of things?

britbox

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I ask the question as on another tennis forum, a couple of posters were comparing Connors to John Newcombe in a slightly unfavourable light.

Really??

Newcombe was a great player no doubt and won 7 majors, albeit including 1 amateur tour major and a couple of Australian Open titles when it wasn't the prestige event it is today. He also had a great Davis Cup record.

But...

I don't think the two can even be compared when it comes to greatness. Connors was a dominant champion in the early to mid 70s. As far as majors go, he'd probably have racked up a higher count if he'd regularly played Kooying (AO) and Paris. Nevertheless, he was the best player in the world for a time.

Borg is justifiably given a place at the top table among the greats and rightly so, but I really don't think Connors was that far behind. Connors was older than both Borg and Mac and peaked before their primes.

Jimmy-Connors-1974-Wimbledon_photo_medium.jpg
 

EdbergsGhost

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Jimmy Conners was brash, in your face, no nonsense. It seemed that for him it was more about money and winning than the love of the sport. I doubt there were many outside of the United States that were fans. Even with the media here, there was a certain antipathy toward him when he was younger. In his match with Arthur Ashe at the Wimbledon Final, a casual listener might be led to believe the world would end if Ashe didn't win.

As with many players, people and press warmed to him as he got older. His evening matches at the U.S. Open, were classics. Still, sometimes personality and perceptions will shadow one's career, long after it is over. I think that may be the case with Jimbo. I say this as someone who was a huge fan of the guy. He was often out-played, but rarely out-fought.
 

masterclass

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Not by me. :yes:
Jimmy is in my top 10 all time list - See CD's ..The Magnificent Seven: Your Own List of 7 Greatest Players of All Time thread.

I didn't put him there only for his accomplishments, which were many and over many years.

He, along with Borg, helped transition the game from the Amateur era to Open Era, in a few respects.

1. From the primarily Serve and Volley game, to a more rallying type of game, slugging out it out mostly from the baseline.

2. From the country club image, pristine, upper crust, gentlemanly sport, to a working class, in your face, hit the ball hard and intense style of play. Not that others hadn't had that before, Gonzales was no saint.
Just that Jimmy really brought it to the mainstream and was someone with whom the average person could identify, a fighter, and left it all on the court. Many people didn't like his brash personality, but that was beside the point.

Borg was Jimmy's polar opposite in manner on court, but was heroic in his own silent brooding style and had the Norse God looks about him.
Teens (mostly girls), adored him, boys wanted to be like him. He was like a rock star of the tennis world.
So Jimmy was the bad boy anti-hero - not far from the Nastase type, vs. Bjorn the stoic quiet hero.
But being from the USA, Jimmy had a lot more market, than the Europeans.

3. Jimmy was also a promoter of the game, similar to Bobby Riggs, though I'm not sure if they were motivated by the same thing.
Tennis players were to become stars on the world stage, and Jimmy helped build an image, even if he was not liked by many.
Like it or not, the goody goody image alone was simply too boring to bring the crowds and the ratings.
Jimmy Connors set the stage for Johnny McEnroe "the brat", who would become well known for his antics questioning line calls and umpire decisions, but make no mistake, Jimmy was his elder and the more intimidating, though McEnroe wasn't one to back down much either. Perhaps John did become the player most likely to throw a tantrum and have the crowd boo him and throw things. Whereas, Jimmy knew how to control the crowd to his advantage, especially later as he was in the twilight of his career. When he played in the 1991 US Open, he had the crowd in the palm of his hand.

At 40, he played 35 yr old. Navratilova in an exhibition dubbed "The Battle of the Champions". The match was played under rules to make it more competitive; Connors was allowed only one serve per point, and Navratilova was allowed to hit into half the doubles court. Each player received a $650,000 guarantee, with a further $500,000 for the winner. Connors won 7–5, 6–2. Navratilova made 8 double faults and 36 unforced errors. Connors, too, was nervous and there was a rumor that he had placed a bet on himself to win at 4:1. According to the Connors book "The Outsider" he placed a million dollar bet on himself, saying that he would lose no more than 8 games.

4. Jimmy's longevity helped with continuity and transitioning tennis from his generation, the one after, and the one after that. This helps the sport's popularity continue on a steady path, even if its stars decline and retire. He was there when the pre-Open Era men were reaching the ends of their careers. He ushered out of majors the 39 year old longevity King Rosewall in 1974. He then had Borg, then McEnroe to contend with. He revived his career in the early 1980's, with Lendl starting to rise after Borg departed and later when McEnroe was floundering. He stuck around through Becker and Edberg's start, and pretty much until Agassi and Pete.

In this respect, Federer is much like Connors. When Federer was in his early years, he played Sampras, he played Agassi, from the previous generations. He obviously played his own generation, and even as early as 2005, was playing the next generation, Nadal, then later Djokovic and Murray. He's stuck around long enough to play the 90's generation, Raonic, Tomic, Nishikori (very late 89), Dimitrov, etc. Now he's playing even the following generation of potential stars, Kyrgios, Kokkinakis, Coric, Zverev, etc. Federer and has even trained at times with that latter group.

It takes a very, very special player to hang around and be competitive with so many generations of players. One must not be burdened along the way with too many serious injuries; one must have the fire inside to keep competing, as normal life goes on, marriage, kids, etc.

Some of Jimmy's longevity records may not be passed, some will be. It's a different time, and a different tour. But he certainly played his role to the hilt.

Respectfully,
masterclass
 
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masterclass

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Thanks. Here are Jimmy and John ... they were not known as the friendliest of players... but they stirred up the crowd. ;)

.

This wouldn't happen today with all of the code violations rules in place. I'm not saying we should have a lot of this... but tennis profits with a bit of drama.

Respectfully,
masterclass
 
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Vince Evert

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Thanks. Here are Jimmy and John ... they were not known as the friendliest of players... but they stirred up the crowd. ;)

.

This wouldn't happen today with all of the code violations rules in place. I'm not saying we should have a lot of this... but tennis profits with a bit of drama.

Respectfully,
masterclass


hey that's a vid i put up ten years ago , probably the best one i ever uploaded:good:

In answer to britbox question, no i don't believe so. Jimmy is still remembered for his deadly return of serve, two handed backhand, only player to win the US Open on three different surface. ROCK ON CONNORS !
 

atttomole

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Were Connors and McEnroe enemies? They both had an attitude, and I am wondering how their other matches went. I imagine Connors found McEnroe's tantrums repugnant.
 

Moxie

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Were Connors and McEnroe enemies? They both had an attitude, and I am wondering how their other matches went. I imagine Connors found McEnroe's tantrums repugnant.
How would Connors have had any ground to judge McEnroe? Connors was the original bad boy. McEnroe just learned from the master.
 

Moxie

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hey that's a vid i put up ten years ago , probably the best one i ever uploaded:good:

In answer to britbox question, no i don't believe so. Jimmy is still remembered for his deadly return of serve, two handed backhand, only player to win the US Open on three different surface. ROCK ON CONNORS !
I absolutely don't think that Connors is underrated. Look at the Fedfans trying to get Roger over his tournament number. But here's a question: in this day and age, wouldn't Jimbo have been defaulted for coming across the net and getting into JMac's face? That was pretty aggressive. Interesting how self-contained McEnroe was in that particular moment.
 
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Vince Evert

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I absolutely don't think that Connors is underrated. Look at the Fedfans trying to get Roger over his tournament number. But here's a question: in this day and age, wouldn't Jimbo have been defaulted for coming across the net and getting into JMac's face? That was pretty aggressive. Interesting how self-contained McEnroe was in that particular moment.

of course he, or any player would including back in the day. But that piece of film i uploaded was from an exhibition match in february 1982. I don't know if the same rules applied to exhibitions.
 
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Vince Evert

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I'm not sure that's true. And I'm fairly sure they're not close now.
why do you say that, MOX ? McEnroe and Connors have always respected eachother, even in the highly competitive years of 1980-1985.
 

isabelle

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this awful guy is really overrated IMO....
 

Moxie

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why do you say that, MOX ? McEnroe and Connors have always respected eachother, even in the highly competitive years of 1980-1985.
That was my feeling, but I googled it. This is just one article, but, as they say, "the relationship remains strained to this day." Connors is an angry guy. I don't think he has a lot of friends in the tennis world. Not that he ever did. McEnroe speaks glowingly of Borg. When he mentions Connors, I'd call it "perfunctory" and informational, only.
 

isabelle

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because his game was awful, his personality more than terrible and his behaviour ? oh well....he had no respect for anyone, for me it's a total lack of work ethic
 

britbox

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because his game was awful, his personality more than terrible and his behaviour ? oh well....he had no respect for anyone, for me it's a total lack of work ethic

Heard him called a jerk pretty often but not heard his work ethic called into question.
 

britbox

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How would Connors have had any ground to judge McEnroe? Connors was the original bad boy. McEnroe just learned from the master.
I don't think McEnroe learned anything from Connors about being a bad boy. He just was... There were similarities though... self-absorbed, obsessed with winning, great competitors...
 
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El Dude

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There are some interesting similarities between the careers of Connors and Federer. Consider...

Both came up during a time with some aging greats and a generally weak-to-moderate peaking generation. For Connors the aging greats were Rosewall and Laver, for Federer it was Sampras and Agassi. The peaking generation was for Connors: Newcombe, Ashe, Nastase, Smith, etc. For Federer it was Kuerten, Kafelnikov, Moya, etc.

Both had a stretch of utter dominance over their peers that was quickly "invaded" by a young superstar: Borg and Nadal, respectively. And both saw waves of other young greats to compete with, for Connors it was McEnroe and Lendl, for Roger it was Djokovic and Murray. And both were able to "hang with the young guys" for years.

Finally, both played well deep into their 30s.

That said, Roger's career is just better in every respect: he was more dominant of his peers and for longer. He was better able to hang with the young guys, and he remained elite longer than Connors. Still, interesting parallels.
 
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